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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 3, 2015 18:10:12 GMT
Earlier today I posted "Hmm ... I was quite keen to invest in these loans until this issue of the "Chairman" who isn't a director came to light. Major alarm bells for me - MoneyThing if you are unable to obtain an adequate explanation this afternoon could you consider postponing the launch of these two loans ?" followed by a series of edits that I now know were factually wrong. The individual concerned resigned as a director of MT's partner on 31st March 2015 as previously noted, and as a director of five other companies on 31st July 2015. He is not, apparently, currently a director of any company. MoneyThing , can you state explicitly whether the individual concerned has ever been disqualified as a director ? I am uncomfortable with your push to get this loan funded given the serious concerns regarding the governance of your new partner were raised before the launch of the loan. The few hours you allow for due dilligence before loans go live is not good practice, however I realise you have already committed your funds at the time (most) loans go live and are keen to reduce your exposure asap. My apologies for the delay...just spent the last 1.5hrs trying to get home but can't because of landslides & flooding so now back at the office. Mr P is currently a non-executive Chairman, he will become a full Director once his full financial settlement from his previous employer has been received. However he resigned as a Director of all the 'previous company' group companies on 31st July 2015. I can also confirm that he has never been disqualified as a director.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 3, 2015 19:00:46 GMT
Mmmm! Looks like a varying web of Essex interrelationships. It would be a nightmare to try to map it all out as the key principals and prior shareholders* have been together at various past companies, some still trading some disolved (struck off). * I have discovered one important piece of info - the "Group MD" has since Sept this year been the sole shareholder of MT's partner. And I'm not sure what to make of the new FD who has come from a career with a major brand (V**** Trains) to join a small scale Essex car operation. I'm struggling with this one .....
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am
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Post by am on Dec 3, 2015 19:44:38 GMT
Next complication - one of the subsidiaries is a franchising operation and there seems to a lot of franchise operations (C** L*** C***** <Town>) around.
What is the relationship between AE and the franchisors? Are franchisors involved in the loans included in the managed portfolios?
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grahamg
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Post by grahamg on Dec 3, 2015 19:49:13 GMT
Confused !!
In the intro document it says "A*** E*******, trading as T** C** l*** C*****"
But on companies house "T** C** l*** C***** Ltd" was renamed "A*** E*******" in 2014
This year the MD has set up and renamed "t**** p**** C** A******* Ltd" to "T** C** l*** C***** Ltd" as the sole officer and shareholder.
So i don't see how AE can trade as "T** C** l*** C***** " or understand who we are dealing with.
Maybe Ed can comment?
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Dec 3, 2015 21:29:53 GMT
Earlier today I posted "Hmm ... I was quite keen to invest in these loans until this issue of the "Chairman" who isn't a director came to light. Major alarm bells for me - MoneyThing if you are unable to obtain an adequate explanation this afternoon could you consider postponing the launch of these two loans ?" followed by a series of edits that I now know were factually wrong. The individual concerned resigned as a director of MT's partner on 31st March 2015 as previously noted, and as a director of five other companies on 31st July 2015. He is not, apparently, currently a director of any company. MoneyThing , can you state explicitly whether the individual concerned has ever been disqualified as a director ? I am uncomfortable with your push to get this loan funded given the serious concerns regarding the governance of your new partner were raised before the launch of the loan. The few hours you allow for due dilligence before loans go live is not good practice, however I realise you have already committed your funds at the time (most) loans go live and are keen to reduce your exposure asap. My apologies for the delay...just spent the last 1.5hrs trying to get home but can't because of landslides & flooding so now back at the office. Mr P is currently a non-executive Chairman, he will become a full Director once his full financial settlement from his previous employer has been received. However he resigned as a Director of all the 'previous company' group companies on 31st July 2015. I can also confirm that he has never been disqualified as a director. Enjoy your night in the office Plenty on here to occupy your time lol
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james
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Post by james on Dec 3, 2015 23:18:07 GMT
I don't see the point of having two separate managed portfolios with the same interest rate and duration, instead of one. What am I missing? For lenders here one benefit is risk reduction. Say that the HP firm becomes insolvent. Each of the loans will then have a different basket of loans as its security. Some of those will default. Each will have a different end of term date. You can reduce risk by diversifying across the largest number of borrowers and vehicles. Another benefit is possible convenience if you want to renew one and not the other without using the secondary market to reduce your holding. I'm assuming that there will be a steady flow of new loans into each of these so that the maturities for the underlying loans and the age of their security stays reasonably consistent across loans. Otherwise one could end up with most of the money secured on loans that have been repaid between the last addition of new loans to the basket, or just really short time remaining compared to others. Not working this way would increase the benefit of using more diversification across the various managed portfolios.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 4, 2015 16:05:40 GMT
All gone roughly 20 seconds after the 24 hour limit disappeared.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Dec 4, 2015 16:32:27 GMT
As much as I like to see new opportunities on MT, 80% LTV of retail value on depreciating assets won't see me putting anything in.Agreed. I also believe loans of this type undermine my confidence in the platform as a whole. The property deal from Broadoak was the right track and I feel taking on stuff like this waters down quality.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 4, 2015 17:16:04 GMT
Don't invest in the deal if you don't like it? Jeez! Seems like a lot of people did take it up, including me.
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scraggs
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Post by scraggs on Dec 4, 2015 17:34:46 GMT
Don't invest in the deal if you don't like it? Jeez! Seems like a lot of people did take it up, including me. So does that mean it can't be discussed here ? Perhaps I have it wrong but I thought that was one of the purposes of this forum.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Dec 4, 2015 17:44:40 GMT
Don't invest in the deal if you don't like it? Jeez! Seems like a lot of people did take it up, including me. I'm not investing but the point I was raising was that deals like these directly affect my confidence in the platform as a whole.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 4, 2015 18:05:03 GMT
Don't invest in the deal if you don't like it? Jeez! Seems like a lot of people did take it up, including me. I'm not investing but the point I was raising was that deals like these directly affect my confidence in the platform as a whole. Why would it affect your confidence in the platform? I don't see the connection.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 4, 2015 19:00:49 GMT
I steered clear of these, though I am a long way from convinced by my own reasoning and would be delighted for you all to shoot holes in it . Things that put me off included:- * 80% rolling LTV * Some interesting questions about the management and cross-shareholdings etc that didn't really get answered * Knowing nothing about car markets or HP finance * Not knowing anything about the underlying car loans going into the structure * Perhaps most of a stretch, I am concerned that the (VW and....?) emissions scandal is going to have very unpredictable effects on car manufacturers.... Having said that iirc during the credit crunch in the US people did pay off car (and credit card) debt, so maybe there's more downside protection there than there might be with other types of consumer finance?
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alanp
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Post by alanp on Dec 4, 2015 19:26:08 GMT
I steered clear of these, though I am a long way from convinced by my own reasoning and would be delighted for you all to shoot holes in it . Things that put me off included:- * 80% rolling LTV * Some interesting questions about the management and cross-shareholdings etc that didn't really get answered * Knowing nothing about car markets or HP finance * Not knowing anything about the underlying car loans going into the structure * Perhaps most of a stretch, I am concerned that the (VW and....?) emissions scandal is going to have very unpredictable effects on car manufacturers.... Having said that iirc during the credit crunch in the US people did pay off car (and credit card) debt, so maybe there's more downside protection there than there might be with other types of consumer finance? I was dubious as well but did invest a small amount in each even so. As to your points: LTV - Earlier post on this thread pointed out that is also 50% of the future income from the HP deal. Realistically most people will pay it off and if 1 or 2 default you will have say 2 cars repossessed by lender which should be replaced in our collateral by other "active HP agreements". Management - I opened that one up with the query re Chairman and as you say still not totally clear. Car Market / HP - Me neither but do I need to really? I don't know anything about classic cars, artworks, pawn broking or property development but I still participate in those loans. Underlying loans - What other information would help us? And is it any different with the underlying assets in some of the other "bundled" rolling deals? VW - Can see it affecting new sales further down the line for some (a lot possibly) manufacturers but I would think given that this firm targets the prime / sub-prime market a lot of the deals are on 2nd hand motors as opposed to brand new ones. And however VW plays out we are not going to give up on cars in a hurry so still be a market for someone to sell vehicles to. Not sure if they shoot holes in your points but just my thoughts. Biggest one for me is the management query, hopefully that will be clarified and crystal clear before the next ones come along.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 4, 2015 20:34:42 GMT
Don't invest in the deal if you don't like it? Jeez! Seems like a lot of people did take it up, including me. So does that mean it can't be discussed here ? Perhaps I have it wrong but I thought that was one of the purposes of this forum. I am with you in supporting freedom of discussion. I am not very happy with 80% LTV although I am not sure if I agree with your conclusions.
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