Investor
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Post by Investor on Mar 18, 2016 10:00:36 GMT
Not sure why you would think there are not BHs on MT. Even us early adopters have probably only built a loan book up to around c35k using reasonable diversification rules (MT have significant 'identical borrower' loans). If your logic is that there are no BHs around because 750k + 250k same borrower loans are not filling as quickly, then maybe consider that MT are at about 10m and SS at 90m + 35m pipeline so a 7.5k chunk of Bolton for a BH probably equates to about a 75k chunk of PBLxxx to maintain a reasonable diverse portfolio. I think MT have probably charted a better course than SS, it's simply that they started the race 24 months later. MoneyThing are likely to follow a similar path to SS at a rate that meets their business growth, no doubt as per SS there may be some CBs along the way to help deal flow, and very likely they will have followed SS growth and be able to use that experience (both good and bad) to help influence decisions regarding their own growth. Worse case they can always ask some of the 'old hands' on here for advice! I accept your point about MT's point on the growth curve but I maintain that BH's are defined in absolute value rather than relative value. £7.5k is not a BH by my definition. Fair point, however I see a different definition of absolute value. I consider a BH by their total investment in P2P, not their investments on individual platforms. My simple logic is that Bolton is 1/10 of the total MT loan book, and the MT loan book is about 1/10 of the SS loan book. Anyone with a diverse portfolio across just these two platforms who holds a 7.5k part of Bolton, would have a 750k cross platform investment in P2P. They gets them a small tin foil BH badge. I know the numbers are necessarily over simplistic but I think following your definition might mean that to become a BH in MT world you would need to do a Victor Kiam
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Mar 18, 2016 10:20:21 GMT
Thank you for all your feedback so far - really appreciated. I will keep this thread open for discussion for a while longer, however it appears that we perhaps will shelve this for the time being. In the meantime we will work on the 'multiple bids up to the bid limit' & the 'auto-renew' features. Kind regards, Ed Ed, whilst looking at the 'auto-renew' feature would it be possible to look at mixing in a 'partial renew' option? (I've actually been with MT long enough now to have had the first 'opt-in' box appear !) eg say I had £1000 in a loan and only wanted to opt-in / roll-over £500? (slider or enter value in a box?) Sure, I could stick the extra on the SM before or after but it would be a nice additional option.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 18, 2016 11:33:18 GMT
Thank you for all your feedback so far - really appreciated. I will keep this thread open for discussion for a while longer, however it appears that we perhaps will shelve this for the time being. In the meantime we will work on the 'multiple bids up to the bid limit' & the 'auto-renew' features. Kind regards, Ed Ed, whilst looking at the 'auto-renew' feature would it be possible to look at mixing in a 'partial renew' option? (I've actually been with MT long enough now to have had the first 'opt-in' box appear !) eg say I had £1000 in a loan and only wanted to opt-in / roll-over £500? (slider or enter value in a box?) Sure, I could stick the extra on the SM before or after but it would be a nice additional option. Morning treeman, Just been discussing this with The Shuang. This is potentially doable but would require a bit of extra work. Will happily add it to the list however and then revert back when we get to it and seek further thoughts from lenders. (Or feel free to discuss it in the meantime of course). We will shortly be launching a few changes to the platform with respect to auto-renew and loan identifier column (with the code changed slightly to show common borrowers on loans). Regards, Ed
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Post by chris on Mar 18, 2016 11:41:02 GMT
Regardless of the nuances of INPL and prefunding, I see SS as the gold standard in this area and think other platforms would do well to copy them. I want MT (and on another note, FS) to succeed as more competition is better for everyone. I think MT needs to attract big hitters and scale up a bit. I would invest much more if I was in the company of BHs and the SM was much more fluid. Other platforms have advice that says that SS do not comply with client money rules with their implementation. Unless SS have multiple millions of pounds sat idle covering the funding of drawing loans then we cannot see how they could be compliant with the regulation. That's not to say they haven't either found a clever loophole or do in fact have millions of pounds otherwise doing nothing. You have to remember that no platform that has launched and has any kind of scale has been fully regulated and vetted by the FCA yet. The first batch of platforms including AC, FC, Z, and RS are going through now. SS are in the next batch and are unlikely to be fully authorised for another 12 - 18 months given the current backlog. Different platforms have different approaches to the regulator from those that are happy to just do stuff and be told not to in the future to those platforms that are trying to make sure they comply with everything so that the FCA can only come back to them with minor tweaks where interpretations differ. AC are in the latter category and without millions of pounds that we can just set aside to do nothing except fund INPL our advice, that we do spend a lot of money on, is that we cannot legally implement that system. With the clarifications from the FCA in January platforms are not allowed to invest their own money in their own loans, and the client money regulations state that only cleared funds may be invested. The one possible workaround is given in a specific example for debit card deposits whereby once you have confirmation that payment has been made from the payment gateway a platform may use their own funds to deposit cash into the client money account until such time as the lender's actual funds clear the merchant banking system at which point the platforms funds must be swept back out of the client money account. Perhaps if SS do have a similar scheme in place to cover every penny invested via INPL and with all the complexities of automatically and instantly sweeping money in and out of the client money account then it is possible they have a compliant system on their hands. As they do not artificially delay withdrawals by several days I do not believe they are trying to work around the regulations by not allowing uncleared funds to leave the platform. If they do not have a compliant system then they run the risk of the platform being shut down by the FCA or huge fines being levied, amongst other punitive punishments the FCA can give out. Time will tell what the FCA make of their implementation and if they approve of it then expect it to be widely copied. Those client money regulations predate P2P investment and are designed to try and prevent some aspects of the Trust Buddy scandal. They are a critical part of protecting each lender's investment.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Mar 18, 2016 12:00:48 GMT
chris From what you are saying it would seem that only the platforms in the first batch will be in a position to launch an IFISA in 2016/17. Do we know who else is included in this group?
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Post by chris on Mar 18, 2016 12:02:27 GMT
chris From what you are saying it would seem that only the platforms in the first batch will be in a position to launch an IFISA in 2016/17. Do we know who else is included in this group? I'm only aware of those that I've already mentioned.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 18, 2016 12:06:40 GMT
chris From what you are saying it would seem that only the platforms in the first batch will be in a position to launch an IFISA in 2016/17. Do we know who else is included in this group? MT were very early H1 15, even before the biggies. Wonder if the shift to a Trust structure is a result of the FCA process? Abundance say they have been given ISA Manager authorisation so I assume they have the full FCA permission (FSR list still says IP)
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Mar 18, 2016 12:22:19 GMT
Ed, whilst looking at the 'auto-renew' feature would it be possible to look at mixing in a 'partial renew' option? (I've actually been with MT long enough now to have had the first 'opt-in' box appear !) eg say I had £1000 in a loan and only wanted to opt-in / roll-over £500? (slider or enter value in a box?) Sure, I could stick the extra on the SM before or after but it would be a nice additional option. Morning treeman, Just been discussing this with The Shuang. This is potentially doable but would require a bit of extra work. Will happily add it to the list however and then revert back when we get to it and seek further thoughts from lenders. (Or feel free to discuss it in the meantime of course). We will shortly be launching a few changes to the platform with respect to auto-renew and loan identifier column (with the code changed slightly to show common borrowers on loans). Regards, Ed Thanks Ed! Appreciate the time taken to reply. Will look forward to seeing the new tweaks.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 18, 2016 12:26:27 GMT
chris From what you are saying it would seem that only the platforms in the first batch will be in a position to launch an IFISA in 2016/17. Do we know who else is included in this group? MT were very early H1 15, even before the biggies. Wonder if the shift to a Trust structure is a result of the FCA process? Abundance say they have been given ISA Manager authorisation so I assume they have the full FCA permission (FSR list still says IP) We submitted our full application by the 31st May 2015 cut-off for our window and were appointed a case officer in December. No indication on gaining full authorisation just yet but shouldn't be too much longer...
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 18, 2016 12:52:07 GMT
MT were very early H1 15, even before the biggies. Wonder if the shift to a Trust structure is a result of the FCA process? Abundance say they have been given ISA Manager authorisation so I assume they have the full FCA permission (FSR list still says IP) We submitted our full application by the 31st May 2015 cut-off for our window and were appointed a case officer in December. No indication on gaining full authorisation just yet but shouldn't be too much longer... So after 6 months, which was the indicative time for the whole process to be completed, they gave you a case officer! Thats efficient. Seems to me unless there has been some queue jumping by the big boys, there's no chance of IFISA launching in any meaningful way in April.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 18, 2016 13:11:36 GMT
We submitted our full application by the 31st May 2015 cut-off for our window and were appointed a case officer in December. No indication on gaining full authorisation just yet but shouldn't be too much longer... So after 6 months, which was the indicative time for the whole process to be completed, they gave you a case officer! Thats efficient. Seems to me unless there has been some queue jumping by the big boys, there's no chance of IFISA launching in any meaningful way in April. To clarify, we have been in communication with another representative within their permissions department earlier than that to supply additional information/documentation that was requested following our original submission in May. This did take us a bit of time to pull together and also some toing & froing. To be fair, it was only once this was completed was it then assigned to a case officer so perhaps the bigger players were able to move through the process more quickly.
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Post by MoneyThing on Mar 18, 2016 13:16:12 GMT
We submitted our full application by the 31st May 2015 cut-off for our window and were appointed a case officer in December. No indication on gaining full authorisation just yet but shouldn't be too much longer... So after 6 months, which was the indicative time for the whole process to be completed, they gave you a case officer! Thats efficient. Seems to me unless there has been some queue jumping by the big boys, there's no chance of IFISA launching in any meaningful way in April. Interesting article on AltFi yesterday on this subject here.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Mar 18, 2016 13:39:14 GMT
HMRC has amended draft legislation for the Innovative Finance ISA to allow aggregator platforms.
That's a huge gamechanger. Thanks Ed.
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