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Post by mrclondon on Apr 13, 2016 18:14:43 GMT
Two observations
1) presenting a selling agents marketing valuation not a RICS red book valuation is just about excusable for very low LTV's ... but this is 70.26% LTV
2) the selling agent is based in Northwich, Cheshire many miles south west of Great Harwood in the East Lancashire Pennine foothills. The property dynamics of the two areas are radically different. (By co-incidence I know a fair bit about current property prices and trends in both these areas)
which means I find it hard to accept the quoted LTV on the evidence presented ...
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 13, 2016 21:54:56 GMT
2) the selling agent is based in Northwich, Cheshire many miles south west of Great Harwood in the East Lancashire Pennine foothills. I wonder why the borrower chose that agent to sell the property? Being naturally cynical, I could suggest that they obtained 'back of the envelope' valuations from a number of agents and listed the property with the agent that was willing to try to sell at the highest price. (Or if I'm extremely cynical I could suggest that the agent is a friend of the borrower!) Or try this... Go to the estate agent's website -- the link is on Page 4 of the property's sales particulars -- and use their 'Search' tool to bring up a list of all the properties they have available for sale at the moment. I found the result most unsettling. I tried Googling "shop for sale" and the street name, and the Rightmove link at the top of the list brought up a withdrawn listing. It's undated, so I don't know how old it might be, but the logo of the estate agent looks an awful lot like the one on the estate agent sign by the first-floor window of the photo on Page 1 of the sale particulars available through the FS website. That's rather unsettling as well. fundingsecure: Have you tried this? I think I may give this one a miss.
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 13, 2016 22:43:10 GMT
Good work mikes1531.
That same ad that you saw on rightmove is on zoopla (same price) flashed "Sold STC" and is shown as having being added on 1st April 2016.
I'm about email fundingsecure the link. Something looks very fishy.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 13, 2016 23:13:59 GMT
Certainly appears to be a fresh approach from the Estate Agent.
I note the sole director of the valuing estate agent also appear to be sole director of what appear to be two property development companies operating form the same address. All three companies only started late last year.
The logo just reminds me of the Red Oktober.
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Post by profunder on Apr 13, 2016 23:18:33 GMT
(1) The "estate agent" is not licensed, so it would be illegal to claim to be one. source: www.naea.co.uk/find-agent/(2) The website displays the property ombudsman logo. And guess what's... They are not a member. (3) The website appears to have existed under two weeks! (4) Values in area would not suggest it's the correct value in my opinion. I think this is someone trying to take a chance, Funding Secure have done initial checks, but I suspect this will never make it too a live loan and certainly not drawdown.
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 13, 2016 23:39:41 GMT
profunder - agreed, but in theory listings on FS should only go live when the legals have at least started. This is the second FS loan in the space of a week that I've flagged (the other was the Bristol mixed use which seems to have been corrected today by creating a new loan listing)
More oddities
The Cheshire "estate agent" details claim "business unaffected" which is also the phrase used on the East Lancs selling agents website (+ rightmove + zoopla) but the photos on East Lancs selling agents website (+ zoopla) show the ground floor shop unit vacant. So there is no business to be unaffected, and if there was there would be a sitting tenant.
In fact all the photos show the property vacant, except for the Cheshire "estate agent" (+ rightmove) which shows the flat furnished, but with fawn carpets where as in the vacant photos the carpets are charcoal grey. Looks to me as if its been on the market for some considerable time, and the rightmove listing was before the property was vacated.
Doesn't do fundingsecure 's credibility much good to put forward loans like this.
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Post by profunder on Apr 13, 2016 23:53:24 GMT
profunder - agreed, but in theory listings on FS should only go live when the legals have at least started. This is the second FS loan in the space of a week that I've flagged (the other was the Bristol mixed use which seems to have been corrected today by creating a new loan listing)
More oddities
The Cheshire "estate agent" details claim "business unaffected" which is also the phrase used on the East Lancs selling agents website (+ rightmove + zoopla) but the photos on those websites show the ground floor shop unit vacant. So there is no business to be unaffected, and if there was there would be a sitting tenant.
In fact all the photos show the property vacant, except for the Cheshire "estate agent" which shows the flat furnished, but with fawn carpets where as in the vacant photos the carpets are charcoal grey.
I also noted the "business unaffected" statement, but this itself isn't proof of anything wrong as there could be a valid lease in place on the empty shop/commercial unit. I didn't bother to check the carpets, didn't seem much point once I saw the estate agent was not a real agent.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 14, 2016 2:54:59 GMT
(2) The website displays the property ombudsman logo. And guess what's... They are not a member. The website also has the Rightmove logo, but if you search the Rightmove website for estate agents in Cheshire the 'agency' name doesn't appear on the list.
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Post by fundingsecure on Apr 14, 2016 8:00:39 GMT
Thank you for your comments. This loan is still going through legal and value due diligence. However, we have decided to postpone placing the loan for funding until we receive a full valuation from one of our regular RICS valuers and complete the legal due diligence. Just to clarify on the timing of placing loans on our platform: as the pace of funding has slowed down recently, we have started to list loans a little earlier during the due diligence process so that the loan can be activated as soon as the due diligence has been completed.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Apr 14, 2016 8:03:39 GMT
On a different tack, for personal reasons I know the price of every residential property for sale in that town, know the prices they eventually sell for (and unless they are extrememly well priced or desirable, I really do mean 'eventually') and I am more than a little dubious about the valuation. My only difficulty in not coming out and declaring it downright ridiculous is that I don't know the effects of commercial parts of the premises on valuation.
Most normal weeks I drive past this one several times, but unfortunately I am out of the country for the next few weeks and can't check out its occupancy status. It used to be a general corner shop/newsagent, but I'm afraid it's something I've paid little attention to as I go past, so I don't know if it still is. It is out of town on a residential edge; can't see it being a thriving business opportunity. Only 10 mins walk away there are 3 supermarkets, so would be no surprise a corner shop might have failed there.
If this were sold to be a residential development opportunity it would struggle to sell at that price once fully done though. IMHO.
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tomtom
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Post by tomtom on Apr 14, 2016 8:15:27 GMT
Just shows you the importance of doing full dd check and also reading both this board and other local sources. Well done FS in removing this loan pending futher checks.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Apr 14, 2016 8:34:21 GMT
A local reputable agent is currently listing this as sold STC against an asking price VASTLY lower than this one's supposed valuation. And I'd be surprised if it had sold for what was asked.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on May 6, 2016 17:18:36 GMT
I know this is academic by now, but just updating for the sake of completeness. I am back home now, drove past this property today and I can confirm there is no shop in it - it's just an empty sad-looking thing.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 6, 2016 18:44:01 GMT
A local reputable agent is currently listing this as sold STC against an asking price VASTLY lower than this one's supposed valuation. And I'd be surprised if it had sold for what was asked. I know this is academic by now, but just updating for the sake of completeness. I am back home now, drove past this property today and I can confirm there is no shop in it - it's just an empty sad-looking thing. Was there a For Sale or Sold sign on the building? What's the current state of the agent's listing?
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on May 6, 2016 20:17:23 GMT
A local reputable agent is currently listing this as sold STC against an asking price VASTLY lower than this one's supposed valuation. And I'd be surprised if it had sold for what was asked. I know this is academic by now, but just updating for the sake of completeness. I am back home now, drove past this property today and I can confirm there is no shop in it - it's just an empty sad-looking thing. Was there a For Sale or Sold sign on the building? What's the current state of the agent's listing? I didn't particularly look for signs (concentrating on road ) but I didn't notice any. The agent's listing is still on the site and is exactly as a few weeks ago: SOLD (STC).
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