james
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Post by james on May 10, 2016 9:01:00 GMT
This may seem harsh but sympathy is misplaced. a). Is it acceptable for a financial services business to launch a product with optional complexities such as instant returns where it is unable to inform lenders of the general tax treatment, let alone provide a tax statement? Note the current apology on another site: "Please note that we are currently updating the downloadable tax statement to reflect the declarable income paid to you, following the new bad debt relief introduced by HMRC in relation to loans that have defaulted since 6 April 2015. Please bear with us, and we thank investors for their patience." What would Albrate say? Perhaps " We have no idea of what the declarable income is - you're on your own". Ablrate will presumably say exactly what their FAQ What is the Tax Position? says. They will also presumably say just what they have said here, that they are working on the required reports, having only recently received the relevant professional opinions. You might perhaps be unaware that for the first three years of its life, until mid 2008, Zopa was telling investors that bad debt could be deducted from income. They did that until a customer told them it was wrong on their forum and pointed to the relevant law. So far it appears that Ablrate is about two years more prompt than Zopa in getting their professional advice on the subject to pass on to us. b). We don't care if payments are automated or not. Why should they not be credited to our account on the due date, if Ablrate has the cash from the Borrower? It is entirely in the hands of Albrate. Does Albrate turn up for Board meetings a day or two late? It's a matter of priorities, and the general problem is that Ablrate have a great product concept but no real understanding of running a customer service business. It's entirely possible that the recent payments were made on the due date, that due date possibly being the first business day from the date given, just as our own direct debits are normally delayed until the same date if they fall on a weekend or holiday day. You might also be aware that until at least 2009 Zopa might credit accounts on the day payment was due to be shown - the business day from the normal due date - but would use BACS to take three business days to pay the money to you when you withdrew it, while Ablrate will normally do it same day or possibly next business day except at times of very high demand. Though in fact Zopa often didn't pay until the following day for many loans, because their payment runs often lasted well into the night and early morning and quote often failed part way through and had to be restarted by hand the following day. In spite of the delays we could still get at the money from those weekend Ablrate payments faster than we'd have got it from Zopa for many years. The Zopa handling continued well after Faster Payments was introduced and they declined to process them on the usual Faster Payments fast schedule because they didn't want to pay the fee they would have had to pay their bank to get more regular updates of the transactions than once a day. Contrast with Ablrate today where debit cards (at the time not allowed by Zopa either) payments are in an account within a second or less. Now, I mention that Zopa history to show that even a business far older and with far more customers than Ablrate was doing things more slowly than Ablrate today does things. This doesn't meant that Ablrate can't improve but it does mean that Ablrate is making decisions about what's appropriate for the stage the business is at. Just as Zopa did, to the annoyance of some investors there at the time. We deal with a fair number of new businesses here and it's sensible for us to recognise that and not necessarily expect the sort of service we might get from say a major bank like RBS.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 10, 2016 9:44:57 GMT
blender, james, I find myself in complete agreement with both of you. Which, for perhaps the first time in my life, has led me to understand what cognitive dissonance means .
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james
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Post by james on May 10, 2016 10:08:11 GMT
blender , james , I find myself in complete agreement with both of you. Which, for perhaps the first time in my life, has led me to understand what cognitive dissonance means . LOL, You just need more practice. It's entirely possible to want things to be better but to understand why they aren't yet.
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duck
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Post by duck on May 10, 2016 11:53:08 GMT
I've kept quiet whilst reading this thread as it grew, now is the time I believe to interject. I spent an enjoyable evening in the pub with ablrateandy a couple of weeks ago and needless to say we discussed many of the matters raised on this forum. From my side of the keyboard it was very interesting to find out some of what goes on at the other side, the day to day challenges and the work that is being put in. Yes it is frustrating when a payment appears late in our accounts but please don't think that ablrate take these things lightly or that these issues are not top priority. I am satisfied that a tight ship is being run within the constraints that are always present when you have with a relatively new business that relies on dealing with other businesses. Needless to say the details of my conversations with Andy will remain private (no I don't have any insider information ) suffice to say I am more than happy to increase my investments through ablrate as they become available.
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Post by yorkshireman on May 10, 2016 21:56:28 GMT
Has everyone received the correct amount of interest?
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Post by yorkshireman on May 10, 2016 22:04:21 GMT
I met ablrate last week at the "Boats and other things overpriced show" in London, and it was good fun . It was good to meet him, and another forumite, Investboy . We talked about many things, but two things were close to the heart of other forumites - tax returns and payments. I am sure ablrate / ablrateandy will correct me if I have miss-stepped but:- a) tax returns etc are dependent on 1) their lawyers and 2) their developers - they are very aware of how much it vexes us. b) payments could be automated, and will be, when it scales - until then I think that, as much as it annoys, this is part of being invested in (lent to?) a different asset class. Do I have some sympathy with the above? Yes. Do I think we stop holding them to account? No. This may seem harsh but sympathy is misplaced. a). Is it acceptable for a financial services business to launch a product with optional complexities such as instant returns where it is unable to inform lenders of the general tax treatment, let alone provide a tax statement? Note the current apology on another site: "Please note that we are currently updating the downloadable tax statement to reflect the declarable income paid to you, following the new bad debt relief introduced by HMRC in relation to loans that have defaulted since 6 April 2015. Please bear with us, and we thank investors for their patience." What would Albrate say? Perhaps " We have no idea of what the declarable income is - you're on your own". b). We don't care if payments are automated or not. Why should they not be credited to our account on the due date, if Ablrate has the cash from the Borrower? It is entirely in the hands of Albrate. Does Albrate turn up for Board meetings a day or two late? It's a matter of priorities, and the general problem is that Ablrate have a great product concept but no real understanding of running a customer service business. Blender's point b hits the nail on the head, absolutely spot on!!
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Post by ablrateandy on May 10, 2016 22:55:16 GMT
Thankyou duck . I thoroughly enjoyed your impromptu stag night! And yes, in response, we have an obligation to render payment promptly and we take this seriously. It is something that will be automated as the business grows but obviously we are trying to achieve that within sensible constraints (ie. not running up excessive costs as these will inevitably be reflected in lower yields). It is one of a couple of things where we have (again) exposed ourselves to criticism and it will be addressed.
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blender
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Post by blender on May 11, 2016 8:46:26 GMT
Thank you, AblerateAndy. Please do not read any personal criticism into an objective assessment of current deficiencies as a customer service operation. I think the forumites all have enough knowledge to appreciate that the platform commission on a loan book of under £10M does not provide much spending money. Clearly the underlying problem is lack of volume compared with the plan. But it is also clear that the business's greatest asset is AblerateAndy.
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ben
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Post by ben on May 11, 2016 13:21:22 GMT
We all know payment is done manually so why do people actually care if it is a day or two late?
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on May 12, 2016 8:21:07 GMT
We all know payment is done manually so why do people actually care if it is a day or two late? You are joking surely? No one cares if it's done manually or not - but the payments should be made on time. It should be a basic competence for a financial services firm. I imagine the FCA wouldn't be too impressed either. How would you like it if your employer frequently paid you late?
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ben
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Post by ben on May 12, 2016 13:02:50 GMT
if that your biggest issue that interest is sometimes paid a few days then its not to bad a site, might be more of a problem if was not paid but as of yet has not been what actual difference has it made to you?
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on May 14, 2016 11:26:25 GMT
Well there was the example last month of not paying the final interest payment and the capital at the start of April but on the 5th meaning that I had to sell other investments so I could make other investments which needed to be done before the end of the tax year.
I am not sure why you fall to see this as an real issue. As much as I like Albrate, they have real issues they need to address such as paying interest on time (this isn't an issue with any other P2P platform I use) and the lack of a tax certificate/details of how some of their loan structures will be treated for UK tax residents.
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