david42
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Post by david42 on Jul 10, 2016 12:35:27 GMT
ablrateandy Does Ablrate hide the performance of its historic loans and non-tradable loans or am I looking in the wrong place? Would you be happy to share at least summary performance information such as: - volume of loans that have repaid on time;
- volume of loans that have repaid late, have overdue repayments, have renegotiated repayment terms, or have been extended?
Some re-assurance about how much is hidden might be timely in view of the secret discussion around the containers loan. The largest P2P lenders publish their loan books. Thank you
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Post by ablrateandy on Jul 10, 2016 12:36:44 GMT
We have never previously had a default.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 13:02:01 GMT
ablrateandy
thank you david42 for your initial questions, important at this time of uncertainty.
Andy, please could you specify the number of loans that have been successfully repaid/completed on due date or within a narrow band either before or after repayment date? What is the total £value of all of these loans?
Appreciated both.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jul 10, 2016 22:35:55 GMT
Agreed that there should be a loan book available to all lenders. I do not have the container loans (sold mine) but am concerned as an Ablrate lender that the fact of problems has been kept secret, presumably while new loans have been floated. I do not appreciate being denied access to the loan details. And this is an independent forum where we usually discuss such problems within the rules of the forum. A bit more general transparency/information would help confidence.
Ref the number and value of loans repaid late. That could look scary because aircraft 532 has been extended by two months and that's £1.8M. Most of us have been happy with that - good security and a chance to gain extra interest while still being able to trade. However, if we had been locked in - like FC property loans - perceptions would be different.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 11, 2016 7:08:56 GMT
Agreed that there should be a loan book available to all lenders. I do not have the container loans (sold mine) but am concerned as an Ablrate lender that the fact of problems has been kept secret, presumably while new loans have been floated. I do not appreciate being denied access to the loan details. And this is an independent forum where we usually discuss such problems within the rules of the forum. A bit more general transparency/information would help confidence. Ref the number and value of loans repaid late. That could look scary because aircraft 532 has been extended by two months and that's £1.8M. Most of us have been happy with that - good security and a chance to gain extra interest while still being able to trade. However, if we had been locked in - like FC property loans - perceptions would be different. I agree that access to the full loan book information (not just those we've lent in) would be helpful. In terms of problems being "kept secret", it's fair to recognise that the loan in question only became "past due" at midnight on Saturday, by which time Ablrate had already emailed lenders and spoken direct to a number of them. On other platforms it can be several days before they even acknowledge there is an issue, let alone describe the legal steps being taken to progress recovery. For example, on Fumbling Communications it's often a week or more before a late payment is flagged, a couple of months before a late loan is defaulted and even then, only lenders in that loan get to see what is going on (not that I'm holding up FC as the model for others to emulate). And as for ReBS ...
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blender
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Post by blender on Jul 11, 2016 8:06:28 GMT
It is easier to recognise things fairly if you have the information. If you do not have any information and have a substantial and growing Ablrate holding and if information affecting Ablrate's performance is given to some and not others then that causes concern. Ablrate is not FC and relies on the confidence of its lenders rather than the statistical past performance of its loan book. It does not have the position, yet, which will allow a perceived reduction of openness and transparency. Two points:-
Where there is a significant problem with a loan which causes the lenders on that loan to be told of difficulties there should also be some message to all Albrate lenders at the same time, just to stop other lenders speculating about the case, what it might be they do not know and how it may affect the platform.
This is an independent forum, and suggestions on another thread that this should not be discussed in public really jar with me, because this is exactly what the forum should do - within the rules - and is what is done on the other platform boards. It is here to share information among all lenders - and potential lenders. This is the first serious problem with an Ablrate loan (assuming it is serious and assuming that there are no other secrets) and how it develops, how Ablrate deal with it, is a matter of real interest to all lenders.
I do have confidence in Ablrate's ability to manage a sick loan, but that confidence is reduced when the screens are drawn around its bed and I am ushered from the room and told nothing unless I am a close relative.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 8:33:44 GMT
If there are issues surrounding this aircraft loan then perhaps we could take a degree of re-assurance that 'living within' Ablrate's office are some fine individual specialisms in Brokering aircraft deals.
Doubtless speculation will continue for as long as we are left to speculate.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 11, 2016 8:34:35 GMT
I believe the issue is to avoid compromising planned action by sharing information on a public forum. This is no different to the factors that led to AC having a private board where such discussions can be held but with a screened audience.
[and if you PM Andy or call Ablrate, I imagine they'll be happy to tell a registered Ablrate lender like you what the situation is]
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jul 11, 2016 8:41:51 GMT
"I agree that access to the full loan book information (not just those we've lent in) would be helpful." (and similar).
Is it not possible to see the whole loan book (and whatever is published regarding each loan) by going to the secondary market page? All available loans are shown there so that we can make a bid on what we haven't got, or an offer on what others are selling....... or something like that.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 11, 2016 8:43:30 GMT
"I agree that access to the full loan book information (not just those we've lent in) would be helpful." (and similar).
Is it not possible to see the whole loan book (and whatever is published regarding each loan) by going to the secondary market page? All available loans are shown there so that we can make an offer on what we haven't got, or a bid on what others are selling.
I believe not once a loan has been paused.
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james
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Post by james on Jul 11, 2016 9:25:07 GMT
I do not have the container loans (sold mine) Compare Ablrate to a more typical platform where there won't even be an update at time of default other than a brief note in the loan description, if that. By contrast Ablrate sent an email, proactively asked some of the people who had bigger interests in the relevant loans to call and gave a direct number in the email for others involved to call while the call recipient was at home including until late in the evening on two weekend days. That's also undoubtedly something appreciated by those who have experience of the absence of feedback from many platforms. Ablrate and those who know are right to be avoiding sharing the knowledge for the moment. Patience can be a challenge but it's what is needed at the moment. Ablrate will say when it's in the best interests of those involved for them to do so.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jul 11, 2016 10:58:27 GMT
I do not have the container loans (sold mine) Compare Ablrate to a more typical platform where there won't even be an update at time of default other than a brief note in the loan description, if that. By contrast Ablrate sent an email, proactively called some of the people who had bigger interests in the relevant loans and gave a direct number in the email for others involved to call while the call recipient was at home including until late in the evening on two weekend days. That's also undoubtedly something appreciated by those who have experience of the absence of feedback from many platforms. Ablrate and those who know are right to be avoiding sharing the knowledge for the moment. Patience can be a challenge but it's what is needed at the moment. Ablrate will say when it's in the best interests of those involved for them to do so. No problem with how Ablrate have communicated with those who hold the loan - but all Ablrate lenders have an interest and need briefing (not necessarily the full details.) A great deal of lending through Ablrate at present is based on trust - rather than diversity and performance. We are all in it together, as they say. Divide us on a need to know basis - like other platforms - and confidence will go. 'Ablrate and those who know are right to be avoiding sharing the knowledge for the moment.' Well if you say so, James, that must be right. Those who know also know that this is an independent, scrutinising, forum. If those who know are quiet, those who do not know will speculate wildly.
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james
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Post by james on Jul 11, 2016 11:22:08 GMT
but all Ablrate lenders have an interest and need briefing (not necessarily the full details.) A great deal of lending through Ablrate at present is based on trust - rather than diversity and performance. We are all in it together, as they say. Divide us on a need to know basis - like other platforms - and confidence will go. The Ablrate announcement to all on this is effectively that the borrower has defaulted and they are doing the usual sorts of things that might be expected for a defaulted loan. I see that they didn't actually directly post those words anywhere, though I think that since we're in the first business day after the event we might accept that for the moment, particularly given their very thoughtful communication with those who have money at stake in these loans. Trust definitely matters and you might also notice that I am often not shy in being critical of platforms that I think are getting things wrong, while in this case I'm praising Ablrate for acting correctly. Or you might trust the rest of the lenders who know and aren't complaining about things. That's a lot of people choosing to keep things quiet and it's only viable for so many to do it if it plainly makes sense, which it does. So far as need to know goes, it is worth considering that need to know in law can apply in situations like this. Borrowers do have some privacy rights and those directly involved in a loan have more reason to know more detail than those who have no direct involvement in a loan. That aside, though, just be patient for a while and you'll know why people are being quiet about details and what the email said about what's happening.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jul 11, 2016 12:46:40 GMT
Thank you James. Ablrate did not need to say much more than that. But it is not just a matter of withholding new info. Once the loan is paused, if you do not have it the loan details and any comments are inaccessible - following one of FC's worst practices, imo. And there is no loan book on which to see the status of loans. The true test of a platform is how it handles such problems, including openness.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jul 11, 2016 13:04:52 GMT
I agree with Blender, this could have been handled a little better, in particular for those not in this particular defaulted loan who were left wondering what has happened
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