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Post by moonraker on Jul 23, 2016 17:59:03 GMT
I'm trying to work out how to estimate my tax liability for 2016-17. I have state and occupational pensions and various dividends and cash savings accounts whose proceeds will exceed the new personal savings and dividend allowances.
After several years of misjudgements, I've recently been able to estimate reasonably accurately the payment on account (ie, made in anticipation of the year's tax bill) required by HMRC by January 31. But with quite a bit of my income being paid gross this year, I suppose I'm going to be lumbered with a bigger tax bill than before after I complete my return next summer – which should make estimating this year's payment on account by January 31 interesting.
Presumably the tax code I've just received after submitting my 2015-16 return relates only to pension income that I receive after it's been taxed.
Comments, please, on these observations – just in case I've missed or imagined something.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jul 23, 2016 20:36:54 GMT
I guess my question would be 'why would you even worry about it yet'? Personally I'll fill in my (tax year 2016-2017) tax return sometime around Jan 2018 (on line - if it's paper it has to be by Oct 2017 IIRC), and DD them what the calculation says I owe them before 31/Jan/2018 (cutting it as fine as I dare). Adequate funds will be in the bank by then, although I expect to surprise them by having them owe me money (they have not caught on to all my gift aided donations and EIS investments yet). Or are you talking about the tax year just ended, or are you not subject to PAYE deductions based on what THEY think you're going to owe them?
The tax code should relate to all the income/outgoings they know about - not just the pension income.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jul 24, 2016 8:10:57 GMT
Whilst I have been caught for a couple of years with payments on account are you certain that you will find yourself in that position moonraker ? A couple of things to remember, payments on account are based on the previous years earnings, only come into play if you make a tax return, the tax due is greater than £1K and less than @80% of your income falls outside PAYE. If your income has fallen since the previous year (and would therefore have a larger payment on account than necessary) there is a form to use, from memory SA303 (?) I've managed to 'avoid' payments on account next year and whilst I will have a hefty bill in Jan 2018 it is still 2018 Personally I have always run spreadsheets for all my investments and a separate one that takes all the interest payments and offsets it against my 17K total allowance and then juggle the investments between myself and my wife who has a similar allowance. The only area that I find introduces 'errors' is the differences in platform treatment of 'cashback', 'instant returns' and similar incentives ............ and then I have fun with the Funding Secure aftermarket
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jul 24, 2016 8:52:30 GMT
I think that should be less than 80% falls inside PAYE (or taxed at source). I.e. HMRC can't get what they want by PAYE code adjustments?
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duck
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Post by duck on Jul 24, 2016 10:14:38 GMT
Yes that is what I meant!
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Post by moonraker on Jul 24, 2016 16:50:06 GMT
Thanks for your replies to date. I confirm that I'm looking ahead to the return I shall need to make for this year, 2016-17. In previous years the payment on account has reflected my modest 40% tax liability, with standard-rate tax on investments being withheld at source.
Recently I filed online my return for 2015-26. This led to HMRC technology suggesting a payment on account for 2016-17 that was the same as for 2015-16.
Each year HMRC sends me more than one tax code. In 2015-16, 185 replaced the original 338; for 2016-17, after I'd made my 2015-16 tax return, 98 replaced the original 208
My occupational pension provider has just sent me an Advice of Payment reflecting this latest tax code for this year – 98 - and advising that my gross monthly payment will be subject to a deduction of 20% income tax. Apart from a very small additional pension and my state pension, my income comes from investments and this year it is being paid gross.
I continue to suspect that after I file this year's tax return I shall have a tax bill on that part of my investment income that exceeds the new allowances. So I may need to estimate a larger payment on account to be made on January 31, 2017 – and then file my tax return ASAP to see if I've estimated correctly.
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Post by uncletone on Jul 24, 2016 22:03:02 GMT
I know it's a cop-out and it costs around ten days interest, but I am reminded why I still, though getting to be long-time retired, pay an accountant to worry about income tax.
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Post by moonraker on Jul 25, 2016 9:35:32 GMT
Having done my own tax returns for some years, latterly on-line, I've found the process reasonably straightforward. My main challenge is assembling the various tax certificates (thank goodness one investment service provides a consolidated certificate for most of my stocks and UK companies) and being careful about banks and building societies I no longer invest with and those that I now do.
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Post by moonraker on Oct 20, 2016 12:51:11 GMT
I guess my question would be 'why would you even worry about it yet'? Today I re-applied myself to the question with which I opened this thread back in July as I need to plan the size of any VCT investments and further Gift Aid donations for the rest of this financial year. Happily I found that HMRC offers its own prediction about my liability on my accounts page, together with a figure for the amount of tax that is being collected from my pensions through PAYE. With just a little head-scratching, I found that I agreed with the figures, which are based on my return for last year (and presumably reflect the changes in taxes on investments). The only problem is that some of my UK interest came from cash investments that have now matured, with the proceeds being invested in new accounts inevitably with much lower interest rates. So HMRC's estimate for this current year is a bit on the high side. (There is an option to change on-line the estimated figures,, which presumably would lead to HMRC adjusting my tax Code.)
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Oct 19, 2017 19:51:25 GMT
Interesting thread. I had a letter from hmrc telling me That they will glean whether I owe them tax from, specifically, bank and building society accounts.
Given that my p2p isa, amongst other altfi products which are not tax protected, is linked to my NI num, would they not be aware of other investment types?
I think it's an odd letter. Has anyone else had similar? Wonder whether triggered by my gradually closing a p2p account and the money moving back into bank (still under the tax allowance though)
I'm hoping to make as much as possible on altfi but it won't be much over my tax allowance. I'm worried that a tax return will be a complete nuisance, and not worth it. Any tips?
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Post by dan1 on Oct 19, 2017 20:12:53 GMT
Interesting thread. I had a letter from hmrc telling me That they will glean whether I owe them tax from, specifically, bank and building society accounts. Given that my p2p isa, amongst other altfi products which are not tax protected, is linked to my NI num, would they not be aware of other investment types? I think it's an odd letter. Has anyone else had similar? Wonder whether triggered by my gradually closing a p2p account and the money moving back into bank (still under the tax allowance though) I'm hoping to make as much as possible on altfi but it won't be much over my tax allowance. I'm worried that a tax return will be a complete nuisance, and not worth it. Any tips? P2P platforms have a duty to report lender earnings to HMRC to feed their CONNECT database, it's not just bank and building society interest they know about. I guess you may have received a letter from HMRC if you haven't declared P2P income and your total interest from all sources is greater than the your savings allowance. If this is the case you should call or write to HMRC to declare your earnings. You will have to register for self assessment if your gross interest exceeds £2.5k.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Oct 20, 2017 16:03:27 GMT
Thanks Dan1. I'm not at my 1k limit at this point, but if they do monitor my accounts that's a lot more helpful than not doing so. I just thought their letter odd, and try to avoid asking questions of hmrc online as they don't seem to be able to answer questions clearly. thought I had to register if over 1k.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 20, 2017 19:03:35 GMT
Thanks Dan1. I'm not at my 1k limit at this point, but if they do monitor my accounts that's a lot more helpful than not doing so. I just thought their letter odd, and try to avoid asking questions of hmrc online as they don't seem to be able to answer questions clearly. thought I had to register if over 1k. Remember the £1k is reduced to £500 for higher rate tax payers and £0 for additional rate. I don't think you need to register if over £1k, just make sure you tell them what interest you've received and they'll probably adjust your tax code accordingly (they'll get what's owed somehow!). Does sound like a rather cryptic letter although that's no surprise I'm afraid.
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Oct 20, 2017 19:52:15 GMT
Interesting thread. I had a letter from hmrc telling me That they will glean whether I owe them tax from, specifically, bank and building society accounts. Given that my p2p isa, amongst other altfi products which are not tax protected, is linked to my NI num, would they not be aware of other investment types? I think it's an odd letter. Has anyone else had similar? Wonder whether triggered by my gradually closing a p2p account and the money moving back into bank (still under the tax allowance though) I'm hoping to make as much as possible on altfi but it won't be much over my tax allowance. I'm worried that a tax return will be a complete nuisance, and not worth it. Any tips? P2P platforms have a duty to report lender earnings to HMRC to feed their CONNECT database, it's not just bank and building society interest they know about. I guess you may have received a letter from HMRC if you haven't declared P2P income and your total interest from all sources is greater than the your savings allowance. If this is the case you should call or write to HMRC to declare your earnings. You will have to register for self assessment if your gross interest exceeds £2.5k. Hi Dan1. Where did you find the £2.5k threshold from please? I was recently told that "up to £10k savings interest will be taken care of by paye no need to report". I am now not so certain.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 20, 2017 21:22:13 GMT
... You will have to register for self assessment if your gross interest exceeds £2.5k. Hi Dan1. Where did you find the £2.5k threshold from please? I was recently told that "up to £10k savings interest will be taken care of by paye no need to report". I am now not so certain. If you follow this you will end up at: "7 Did you have any other income you need to report? You need to report: any income of £2,500 or more that hasn’t been taxed, such as tips or commission income from savings and investments of £10,000 or more before tax income from dividends of £10,000 or more before tax" P2P interest is classed as Other UK income according to this and therefore if £2.5k or more you should register for SA. The quote above is very confusing because I initially thought I'd have to do a SA only if my P2P interest was at least £10k (I wish!). Lots of discussion every April over on the General P2X board Disclaimer - this is not advice!
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