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Post by flobberchops on Aug 19, 2016 19:34:21 GMT
Another complete newbie here so I'll piggyback this thread rather than create a new one if that's OK.
1) In the new Loans section, what's the significance of "days remaining"? Days until bidding is closed? In that case what happens if a loan isn't fully funded?
2) Once a new loan is bid on, do you start earning interest straight away, or only once it's filled?
3) What's the difference between "underwritten" and "invested"?
4) The secondary market - am I right in thinking that you can instantly buy loan parts at the set price, and you can make the sellers an offer at a more favourable rate? How does this work with loan parts of different sizes, e.g. seller A is offering one rate on £100 of loan, seller B offers another rate on £100, I want to buy £150 of loan, how are my funds allocated?
5) Is there ever the possibility of a negative yield if you buy a loan part at a premium? Or is this usually only the case with very marked-up loan parts near maturity? Is there much predatory loan-flipping going on?
I'm used to the ultra-simple system of MoneyThing so this is all a bit overwhelming!
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 19, 2016 19:52:46 GMT
Another complete lendeie here so I'll piggyback this thread rather than create a ne if that's OK. 1) In the new Loans section, what's the significance of "days remaining"? Days until bidding is closed? In that case what happens if a loan isn't fully funded? 2) Once a new loan is bid on, do you start earning interest straight away, or only once it's filled? 3) What's the difference between "underwritten" and "invested"? 4) The secondary market - am I right in thinking that you can instantly buy loan parts at the set price, and you can make the sellers an offer at a more favourable rate? How does this work with loan parts of different sizes, e.g. seller A is offering one rate on £100 of loan, seller B offers another rate on £100, I want to buy £150 of loan, how are my funds allocated? 5) Is there ever the possibility of a negative yield if you buy a loan part at a premium? Or is this usually only the case with very marked-up loan parts near maturity? Is there much predatory loan-flipping going on? I'm used to the ultra-simple system of MoneyThing so this is all a bit overwhelming! 1) yes days remaining to bid. Depends but usually ABL have large lenders in the wings to pick up slack. 2) If instant returns is enabled then yes (usually is) 3) underwritten means large lenders have agreed to invest that amount should the loan not fill. On small loans Abl operate a prebidding system or pledges so the underwritting shows amount pledged by lenders 4) yes - you can buy off the market or make a request at a different rate and wait for someone to match it. Funds needed in advance. I assume in the second case the system will offer you a merged price. 5) Possible but Abl will remove offers like that. Hopefully nobody is that daft. Loans cant be sold within a month of maturity to reduce risk of people buying at daft rates. People do list at silly rates but because Aer is shown hopefully nobody will buy.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 19, 2016 19:56:23 GMT
Days remaining is until the end of the bidding period. Normally what would happen if a loan has not been sufficiently funded is that the money would be returned to lenders but the period can be extended or the borrower could accept a lower amount. Sometimes you'll see a loan with a variable amount and a range given, in that case the loan will complete if the minimum is fulfilled. If you see "instant returns" lenders would be paid that interest from the time of the bid until end of bidding time even if the loan didn't complete.
Not all loans have instant returns but most recent ones have.
Underwritten is a commitment by people to use that amount of money to complete the loan if it hasn't been filled by the end date for bidding. So a loan with 500k applied for, 400k filled and 200k underwritten would take 100k from underwriters to fill it.
On the secondary market you fill your request in best to worst rate then most recently to least recently offered/bid if the rates are the same. I suggest not deliberately combining amounts from several bids/offers because it makes some aspects of accounting less clean, like tracking yields and accrued interest paid/received. So I'd pick 100 first then 50 instead of doing 150 when there are two 100 opportunities unless the rates are exactly the same.
Yes, negative yield is possible but in general you'd find that Ablrate would be happy to reverse the transaction if through some mistake you purchased at a negative yield. The mark up or down isn't automatically changed so what can happen is that the yield on an offer gradually drifts lower over time until it becomes negative. One nice thing about Ablrate is that you can offer to sell something that you don't particularly want to sell, at a rate that reflects what you'd want to sell it. Maybe nobody will bite, maybe someone will. If you've priced it right you won't much mind either way. The rates for this might not look very attractive to prospective buyers, though!
It's also worth being aware that you pay accrued interest when you buy a loan and receive accrued interest when you sell. Accrued interest is the interest from the last interest payment date up to the date of the transaction.
Loan buying for resale definitely happens but resales are slow enough and primary market supply high enough that I wouldn't say that at the moment there's much prospect of it being anything that could be considered predatory. Ablrate have at times taken bids for primary market loans then allocated money on a fair basis when it's seemed possible that a loan would be very rapidly filled if it was just left fully open to bids of any size at initial offering. Of course this could change but given the current supply/demand situation and Ablrate's approach to smaller loans I'd say no troublesome level of flipping is really possible right now. Maybe later.
Comments on flipping are based on my experience doing a lot of both buying and selling on the secondary market. Since I pay good attention I'm pretty aware of the possibilities that are around. I've certainly done a fair bit of buying with the intention of selling, but usually not very quick selling associated with flipping.
I'm very hostile to the idea of widespread flipping but so far I agree with Ablrate's view that at the moment it's providing useful loan liquidity on the secondary market.
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Post by flobberchops on Aug 19, 2016 20:06:25 GMT
Very helpful replies, thanks guys.
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Aug 20, 2016 9:06:03 GMT
Another silly question perhaps (from someone keen to try Ablrate but who has yet to register); is there a minimum investment? Perhaps an etiquette? For example if someone was to 'dip their toe' with a 3 digit sum & maybe look to spread it across different loans? Just to explain I am coming from a background of only ever investing in P2P that have a rainy day fund for about 6 months & prior to that having only ever saved aside from a very small number of shares which were given to me.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 20, 2016 9:15:26 GMT
There should be no problem with that. There is not even a minimum sized loan part - as in FC's £20 for example.
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Post by ablrateandy on Aug 20, 2016 16:27:46 GMT
We generally don't have a minimum per loan although if your behaviour led us to think that maybe p2p was not for you then we may quiz you! (We have one lender who keeps investing and withdrawing pennies and he is close to a call!)
I'd say most people do £100-500 on their first loan to test the water. If you wanted to try a smaller amount it's not a problem at all and we are always happy to help.
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 20, 2016 19:36:38 GMT
We generally don't have a minimum per loan although if your behaviour led us to think that maybe p2p was not for you then we may quiz you! (We have one lender who keeps investing and withdrawing pennies and he is close to a call!) ... Perhaps he's misunderstood what "p2p" actually stands for ......
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Post by flobberchops on Aug 20, 2016 20:04:46 GMT
Update: have taken the plunge and deposited a small sum on the platform. Just waiting for it to clear now and I can have some fun Thanks again for the information, everyone.
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Aug 20, 2016 20:14:41 GMT
We generally don't have a minimum per loan although if your behaviour led us to think that maybe p2p was not for you then we may quiz you! (We have one lender who keeps investing and withdrawing pennies and he is close to a call!) I'd say most people do £100-500 on their first loan to test the water. If you wanted to try a smaller amount it's not a problem at all and we are always happy to help. Thanks. I have to say that your answers on here, your loyal customers & most importantly the decisive action you are willing to take when things go wrong make your platform very attractive! Your system niggles (or niggles due to manual intervention where the system doesn't exist) will irk me, but I can overlook them on a smaller newer platform (if they still exist when you have been around 10 years I will start to moan)! I was thinking of maybe starting with £200 to £500 & maybe 4 to 6 loans with that (say £50 to £100 per loan). I may get carried away when I see these double digit percentages in first hand print!
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Aug 20, 2016 20:16:41 GMT
Update: have taken the plunge and deposited a small sum on the platform. Just waiting for it to clear now and I can have some fun Thanks again for the information, everyone. You beat me to it!!! May I ask if you had to provide a scan of your passport? I was going to sign up yesterday, but I didn't have it to hand.
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pom
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Post by pom on Aug 20, 2016 20:26:40 GMT
Update: have taken the plunge and deposited a small sum on the platform. Just waiting for it to clear now and I can have some fun Better off using debit card, then you don't have to wait (would be surprised if a bank transfer is credited at the weekend)
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Aug 20, 2016 20:38:51 GMT
Update: have taken the plunge and deposited a small sum on the platform. Just waiting for it to clear now and I can have some fun Better off using debit card, then you don't have to wait (would be surprised if a bank transfer is credited at the weekend) Not if you use my bank! Their debit card is permanently getting blocked if I sneeze the wrong way - I went to town on them when trying to make a smallish deposit to a prepaid card; spent 15 minutes on the phone for them to unblock it/assure me that it would go through, only for a second system to block it again (they said the first was VBV, but supervisor admitted not uncommon for both systems to block). Ended up doing a faster payment & it was certainly faster even with clearing times!
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james
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Post by james on Aug 20, 2016 20:56:24 GMT
You could always open another bank account and use Faster Payments to move money into the new account. I've had no issues funding Ablrate with a Santander debit card, nor during MoneyThing business hours with using Faster payments to fund MT, though it doesn't work at all there during my preferred investing times because they are understandably asleep. The Ablrate debit card payments are immediate even at say 3AM.
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Post by flobberchops on Aug 21, 2016 9:59:14 GMT
You beat me to it!!! May I ask if you had to provide a scan of your passport? I was going to sign up yesterday, but I didn't have it to hand. No, I didn't... is that part of the signup process? My funds haven't cleared yet so I may still get prompted for ID at some point if that's standard.
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