SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 26, 2016 11:14:08 GMT
Smallish new 12% loan (£78k) to APF now live. Not many seem to have bid yet.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 26, 2016 11:21:58 GMT
Smallish new 12% loan (£78k) to APF now live. Not many seem to have bid yet. I've read it. I'm puzzled by it. I'm going to follow the 'if you don't understand, don't go for it' approach. I get borrowing to grow, but not where the experience of APF comes in or why this particular (HH) online company will work. The security being a family home also doesn't fill me with joy. I hope it goes and at that value suspect it will get away quickly, but this feels more like an FC loan than an Abl one?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 26, 2016 11:27:02 GMT
I think had APF not been in front of it I would have abstained, as it is there's effectively two layers of security so I dipped my toe.....
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 26, 2016 11:32:56 GMT
ACF still havent managed to file their accounts/lift strike off. Doesnt give me much confidence in main director of APF
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 26, 2016 11:40:30 GMT
Funny that similarly sized Ablrate loans against some empty shipping containers at 14% triggered dog-eat-dog bidding frenzies. Or maybe that's why this one is getting a more cautious reception!
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ben
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Post by ben on Sept 26, 2016 11:52:45 GMT
I dipped my toe nail into this one.
Have not been sent go live email yet so might be why not that full yet.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Sept 26, 2016 13:46:38 GMT
I dipped my toe nail into this one. Have not been sent go live email yet so might be why not that full yet. Don't have toe nails left to bite off and drop in this loan. Not sure if I understand the second charge part and how they relate to the Director's guarantee.
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ben
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Post by ben on Sept 26, 2016 13:59:27 GMT
Ignore the director, as security it be unlikely to worth much in case of default. 2nd charge on family home, 1st charge to a mortgage company with a pretty high LTV on that not much chance of getting anything from that. The that leaves the PG which as we all know are most of the time no good. The APF securing the loan is the actually security on the loan but as has been put before they have not filled there reports so how much worth that security will be is anyones guess.
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james
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Post by james on Sept 26, 2016 20:40:24 GMT
I think that the most interesting thing about this loan might be this in the borrowings request proposal document:
"Ablrate Lenders will be assigned the security on the transaction as well as APF taking all of the credit risk associated with the loan to borrower name which provides two levels of security for Lenders"
I've asked this question on the site just to be sure, though:
'Please confirm that this statement from the loan proposal document is accurate: "Ablrate Lenders will be assigned the security on the transaction as well as APF taking all of the credit risk associated with the loan to borrower name which provides two levels of security for Lenders". Specifically the "no credit risk" part, meaning that APF is going to pay the interest and repay the loan if borrower initials doesn't.'
This appears to be sufficiently answered in the loan details, which say:
"However the loan is being made to APF who still maintain full responsibility for the credit risk on <APF's borrower> to Ablrate Lenders. This means that if <APF's borrower> were to default on the resultant loans from Ablrate Lenders, Ablrate would be able to call on the underlying security as well as calling on APF to pay Lenders."
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james
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Post by james on Sept 26, 2016 20:45:29 GMT
One positive thing is that the property valuation is the same as the one estimated by Zoopla.
This from the loan document is puzzling. Who are AFP?
"For clarity, this is not an assignment of a loan, but a loan to AFP with the underlying security assigned to Ablrate Lenders."
So the borrower is not really the healthcare place but actually AFP whoever they are? Maybe a typo for APF? At least it appears that it's just a typo from the rest of the loan particulars.
The loan contract makes it clear that the directors' personal guarantees are from the directors of the healthcare company not the directors of APF.
Since the loan is to APF, does APF have the resources to repay the loan before the use of any security, specifically with respect to this in the loan proposal:
"The loan is being made directly to <APF> who will assume the credit risk beyond the assignment of security. If an event of default occurs Ablrate would be able to call
on the underlying security or call on APF to service/repay the loan."
That is, can we expect APF to pay out of their own cash or would APF just end up unable to repay the loan if the healthcare company didn't pay them? The point in part being, would APF just assert inability to pay until the security was sold?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 26, 2016 20:50:52 GMT
The details state pretty clearly IMO that Ablrate's borrower is APF:
"However the loan is being made to APF who still maintain full responsibility for the credit risk on HH to Ablrate Lenders"
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james
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Post by james on Sept 26, 2016 20:55:00 GMT
The details state pretty clearly IMO that Ablrate's borrower is APF. Yes, they do, Was addressing things as they occurred to me and editing as I went.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Sept 26, 2016 21:19:40 GMT
It would be REALLY sneaky to set up two companies, APF and AFP and use it to mislead  |
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james
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Post by james on Sept 26, 2016 21:35:01 GMT
It would be REALLY sneaky to set up two companies, APF and AFP and use it to mislead As well as the company APF there is an individual APF who is apparently involved in various ways in many loans on the Ablrate and Saving Stream platforms and perhaps others. Since much of the credit risk is actually related to the conduct of individuals and their own personal inclination to stand behind their activities it would be good to have those links all disclosed, not just the links of any of their limited companies.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 27, 2016 9:12:41 GMT
It would be REALLY sneaky to set up two companies, APF and AFP and use it to mislead and perhaps others. Since much of the credit risk is actually related to the conduct of individuals and their own personal inclination to stand behind their activities it would be good to have those links all disclosed, not just the links of any of their limited companies. I am aware of the Ablrate loans but which SS loans?
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