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Post by Collateral Rep on Sept 28, 2016 9:22:22 GMT
Hi jimc99, Yes we will continue to add loans where Collateral hold the asset, but as we grow we are being approached for different asset classes and types of loans. We always appreciate comments from this forum and will post here when we look into new asset classes etc for feedback. Many thanks, Gordon |
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 28, 2016 11:29:02 GMT
Personally I do not like the assets being kept by the borrower and not Collateral. I know these arrangements are popular on MT and so far so good but not for me. Hope there will still be a flow of loans with Collateral keeping the assets themselves. Anyway, good luck. how would you retrieve the security if the borrower should default?
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Post by Collateral Rep on Sept 28, 2016 11:40:03 GMT
Hi stevio, There will be a debenture over the company which has it's legal implications for the borrower, but in saying this we have done our due diligence and we don't see any issues. Many thanks, Gordon |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 28, 2016 12:45:52 GMT
Personally I do not like the assets being kept by the borrower and not Collateral. I know these arrangements are popular on MT and so far so good but not for me. Hope there will still be a flow of loans with Collateral keeping the assets themselves. Anyway, good luck. how would you retrieve the security if the borrower should default? Sledgehammers, a couple of Grumpy's relatives and some wheelie bins? 
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amphoria
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Post by amphoria on Sept 28, 2016 13:56:03 GMT
Just out of interest, if you hold a debenture over the company why go to the bother of a charge over the grouped assets? This seems like a lot of admin, especially if the borrower can substitute items. Personally I treat these types of loans (on other platforms) as simply a loan to the borrower's working capital secured against the business, rather than against the basket of assets. If you think there is more security in the assets then it does not seem to say much for your opinion of the prospects for the business. It is my understanding that they are taking a fixed charge over the assets rather than a floating charge. With a fixed charge the borrower cannot sell the assets without getting approval from Collateral, although they appear to have agreed some kind of swap out arrangement. There are other advantages to a fixed charge in terms of priorities in the event of default which are summarised nicely in this article: www.hewitsons.com/content/what-bank-debenture
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Post by westcountryfunder on Sept 28, 2016 14:32:46 GMT
Just out of interest, if you hold a debenture over the company why go to the bother of a charge over the grouped assets? This seems like a lot of admin, especially if the borrower can substitute items. Personally I treat these types of loans (on other platforms) as simply a loan to the borrower's working capital secured against the business, rather than against the basket of assets. If you think there is more security in the assets then it does not seem to say much for your opinion of the prospects for the business. It is my understanding that they are taking a fixed charge over the assets rather than a floating charge. With a fixed charge the borrower cannot sell the assets without getting approval from Collateral, although they appear to have agreed some kind of swap out arrangement. There are other advantages to a fixed charge in terms of priorities in the event of default which are summarised nicely in this article: www.hewitsons.com/content/what-bank-debentureYou may be right, I hope you are, and Collateral will hold a fixed charge over 'grouped assets', but I think that is unlikely. As explained in the link which you provided, the moving stock which is constantly being bought and sold would normally be covered by a floating charge under the debenture. This is far from merely academic. I hope Collateral can inform us precisely what is envisaged. To say that a debenture is to be held is regrettably somewhat imprecise.
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Investboy
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Post by Investboy on Sept 28, 2016 16:04:51 GMT
I personally like a smaller loans... in the 10-20k range with a piece or pieces of gems or jewelry. As long they will keep coming I'm a happy bunny.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 5, 2016 10:02:38 GMT
collateral Collateral Rep I notice you mention this is likely to launch tomorrow Please could you provide the following information: - Bid Limit - as mentioned, some would like to sell loans elsewhere to fund this, so need to know how much to sell so as not to oversell and be disappointed with a last minute bid limit - Details of the business the debenture is to be placed on - eg. how long in business, type of business, level of existing borrowing, accounts if possible etc etc Although secured, it would be good to know something about the business to try to estimate the likelihood of default - Retrieval of the assets can be an issue that can take some time, as a container loan on Ablrate is finding, however we appreciate these are changeable assets that most likely need to be on the borrower's premises for them to continue business. Could you give more details of the exact nature of the debenture itself? Is it a fixed or floating charge? - Confirm that the assets themselves are free from any finance and the borrower legally owns the assets eg not pawned or financed already
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Post by Collateral Rep on Oct 5, 2016 10:09:22 GMT
Hi stevio, Yes we are looking at tomorrow but it may be later in the day or Friday morning. I will provide more details when we know for sure if it's tomorrow or Friday. Many thanks, Gordon |
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 5, 2016 10:24:29 GMT
Hi stevio , Yes we are looking at tomorrow but it may be later in the day or Friday morning. I will provide more details when we know for sure if it's tomorrow or Friday. Many thanks, Gordon Its already late in the day for moving money for Friday, let alone Thursday, so sorry it's not really acceptable for you to delay the information further, as well as not giving any definitive timelines on when you will provide information That answer may be acceptable for a small loan, but this is a sizable jump for Collatoral and your handling of this expansion is not looking good
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Oct 5, 2016 11:09:11 GMT
That answer may be acceptable for a small loan, but this is a sizable jump for Collatoral and your handling of this expansion is not looking good Well, I haven’t been here long, and I realise this is a slightly different asset type, but they already have a loan book near £1.5 million, and they’ve had one coin loan larger than this, and several single piece jewellery or car ones not so far off. Unless it’s a really bad deal, late loan information may be an issue for you, but I don’t think it will be for them. I can understand the issues that platforms can sometimes have releasing early information. However, I do hope that they put a bid limit on it for a while (I think £1000 k was suggested) cause this will give people more of a window to review the information. With very fast deposits and withdrawals’, the only issue with moving money in on the off chance is if it wasn’t ‘spare’ in the first place I guess, and if in doubt, there will always be more loans......
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Oct 5, 2016 11:42:18 GMT
That answer may be acceptable for a small loan, but this is a sizable jump for Collatoral and your handling of this expansion is not looking good Well, I haven’t been here long, and I realise this is a slightly different asset type, but they already have a loan book near £1.5 million, and they’ve had one coin loan larger than this, and several single piece jewellery or car ones not so far off. Unless it’s a really bad deal, late loan information may be an issue for you, but I don’t think it will be for them. I can understand the issues that platforms can sometimes have releasing early information. However, I do hope that they put a bid limit on it for a while (I think £1000k was suggested) cause this will give people more of a window to review the information. With very fast deposits and withdrawals’, the only issue with moving money in on the off chance is if it wasn’t ‘spare’ in the first place I guess, and if in doubt, there will always be more loans...... Although there might have been similar sized loans, they were based on one asset. This is a multiple asset loan and to my knowledge there have been no other debentures and this is the way MT progressed from simple pawn loans to more sizable loans - this is what I meant by sizable jump as in the next stage of the platforms progression For me, I don't see the point in having money not invested, so its not an 'off chance' that is not spare, its a definite chance it's not spare and will need time to make it 'spare'. I imagine I am not the only one.
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Post by Collateral Rep on Oct 5, 2016 13:12:25 GMT
Afternoon, The loan will go live at 10am Friday and will have a bid limit of £1,000 for the first three hours. This £57,000 Grouped Assets Loan is against 97 items of jewellery with a cost value of over £103,000. The loan is secured by Buy Back, Assignment of Chattels and Sale Agency Agreements (which have been prepared by our lawyers) over a stock list of individual jewellery items. The schedule is managed by Collateral and the borrower to ensure that the loan represents no more than 55.3% cost value of the stock listed. It is a rolling facility whereby when an item from the list is sold, it is replaced with an item (or items) of equal or greater cost value. The schedule will be maintained and updated on a weekly basis. A buy back fee (equal to 6 months interest payments) will be deducted from drawdown to ensure that the LTV does not increase during the lifetime of the loan. After 6 months, the borrower can choose to either buy back the goods or renew by paying a further fee equivalent to the interest payments due for the duration of the renewal. At this point investors can choose to either liquidate their loan parts or renew for the period of the renewal. The borrower has a chain of 6 shops based in the south of England, and has been in the jewellery retailing business for over 20 years. They are using the funds released from these agreements to fund their expansion in the rapidly growing second hand watch and jewellery market. A copy of the initial schedule of jewellery can be found attached. (Note that the schedule will change on a regular basis as and when items are sold and replaced with other items of the same or greater value). Many thanks, Gordon Stock List.pdf (85.89 KB) |
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 5, 2016 13:21:15 GMT
Thank you. Interesting to note that the schedule will be updated weekly (MT do not do this, though some of their CS pawn items are as low as £20, so that would be unrealistic, but Collateral's average here is nearly £600).
Are we allowed to know the name of the pawnshop chain?
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Post by Collateral Rep on Oct 5, 2016 13:31:50 GMT
Hi oldgrumpy , In this instance as they are a trading retailer we have agreed that we won't name the borrower. We will make sure there is a way to identify this new borrower in the event of further loans. Many thanks, Gordon |
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