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Post by Whitbourne on Nov 30, 2016 23:49:02 GMT
I have my first default on the platform, 241530-01. Frustratingly it is also my largest loan on the platform. Any advice on what to expect in terms of recoveries and timelines? www.mintos.com/en/241530-01Looks like it will be ok. only 2300 left in principal. I am much more worried about new Hipocredit loans, with 75% LTV financed in small cities, with very low liquidity. example: www.mintos.com/en/360215-01Investors seems to understand that, so now one is really investing in those loans. What do you think about it guys ? I think it is quite strange to invest at 12% in a five-year loan that may default, secured at 75% of the value of a flat that may be difficult to sell, when I can invest instead in loans at 13.2% with a 60-day buyback guarantee. Unless I am very worried about the financial position of the originator, the guaranteed loans must make more sense surely? Tonight there are 33,857 loans on the primary market (a few months ago it was less than 3,000 some days) and, according to the filter, there are 23,844 loans *with buyback* that yield 13% or more, with maturities between a few months and 2 years. What's not to like?
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Post by jackp2p on Dec 1, 2016 8:51:42 GMT
That's exactly my point.
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art
Posts: 22
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Post by art on Dec 2, 2016 7:03:13 GMT
Mogo will get it recovered, but I wouldn't expect full repayment.
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art
Posts: 22
Likes: 22
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Post by art on Dec 2, 2016 7:05:36 GMT
www.mintos.com/en/241530-01Looks like it will be ok. only 2300 left in principal. I am much more worried about new Hipocredit loans, with 75% LTV financed in small cities, with very low liquidity. example: www.mintos.com/en/360215-01Investors seems to understand that, so now one is really investing in those loans. What do you think about it guys ? I think it is quite strange to invest at 12% in a five-year loan that may default, secured at 75% of the value of a flat that may be difficult to sell, when I can invest instead in loans at 13.2% with a 60-day buyback guarantee. Unless I am very worried about the financial position of the originator, the guaranteed loans must make more sense surely? Tonight there are 33,857 loans on the primary market (a few months ago it was less than 3,000 some days) and, according to the filter, there are 23,844 loans *with buyback* that yield 13% or more, with maturities between a few months and 2 years. What's not to like? You do want to have some diversification in your portfolio though. Yes, 12% mortgages in marginal places might yield at the end of the day 10% or so accounting for write-off, its still not bad for the mortgage.
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fric
Member of DD Central
Posts: 199
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Post by fric on Dec 2, 2016 7:28:59 GMT
www.mintos.com/en/241530-01Looks like it will be ok. only 2300 left in principal. I am much more worried about new Hipocredit loans, with 75% LTV financed in small cities, with very low liquidity. example: www.mintos.com/en/360215-01Investors seems to understand that, so now one is really investing in those loans. What do you think about it guys ? I think it is quite strange to invest at 12% in a five-year loan that may default, secured at 75% of the value of a flat that may be difficult to sell, when I can invest instead in loans at 13.2% with a 60-day buyback guarantee. Unless I am very worried about the financial position of the originator, the guaranteed loans must make more sense surely? Tonight there are 33,857 loans on the primary market (a few months ago it was less than 3,000 some days) and, according to the filter, there are 23,844 loans *with buyback* that yield 13% or more, with maturities between a few months and 2 years. What's not to like? So a math question here - Would the end results be the same with the same interest rates but different lengths (e.g. example 1 - taking 1 month loans vs example 2 taking lets 60 month car/mortgage loans)? Assuming everything is paid on time and you reinvest any repayments (both interest and principal) as soon as possible in the same type of loans. It may get a bit confusing since longer loans pay more interest at the beginning.
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Post by Whitbourne on Dec 2, 2016 20:27:11 GMT
I think it is quite strange to invest at 12% in a five-year loan that may default, secured at 75% of the value of a flat that may be difficult to sell, when I can invest instead in loans at 13.2% with a 60-day buyback guarantee. Unless I am very worried about the financial position of the originator, the guaranteed loans must make more sense surely? Tonight there are 33,857 loans on the primary market (a few months ago it was less than 3,000 some days) and, according to the filter, there are 23,844 loans *with buyback* that yield 13% or more, with maturities between a few months and 2 years. What's not to like? So a math question here - Would the end results be the same with the same interest rates but different lengths (e.g. example 1 - taking 1 month loans vs example 2 taking lets 60 month car/mortgage loans)? Assuming everything is paid on time and you reinvest any repayments (both interest and principal) as soon as possible in the same type of loans. It may get a bit confusing since longer loans pay more interest at the beginning. It's the same, so long as the time spent not invested in between loans is zero and the interest rate is calculated on a consistent basis. With loans as short as 1 month it also starts to matter what is done on the day you buy and the day you get the money back. For example, I believe that a loan is not 'late' until 3 days after the due date? I forget where I read that and it may be wrong. Say for now it is correct. If 30-day loans are consistently 1-2 days late it starts to make a difference. On a 60-month loan it is irrelevant. Again, if you don't get any interest on the day you buy, then over 5 years there will be 60 such days on monthly loans.
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Post by Whitbourne on Dec 2, 2016 20:30:33 GMT
I think it is quite strange to invest at 12% in a five-year loan that may default, secured at 75% of the value of a flat that may be difficult to sell, when I can invest instead in loans at 13.2% with a 60-day buyback guarantee. Unless I am very worried about the financial position of the originator, the guaranteed loans must make more sense surely? Tonight there are 33,857 loans on the primary market (a few months ago it was less than 3,000 some days) and, according to the filter, there are 23,844 loans *with buyback* that yield 13% or more, with maturities between a few months and 2 years. What's not to like? You do want to have some diversification in your portfolio though. Yes, 12% mortgages in marginal places might yield at the end of the day 10% or so accounting for write-off, its still not bad for the mortgage. Yes you are right of course, diversification is good in principle and reduces risk. But the mortgage brings other kinds of risk, which you have correctly identified. So at the end of the day, I would not invest in that mortgage but I am very happy to invest in the 13.2% buyback loans from Banknote. You are right, by doing this I am concentrating my risk - but then my Mintos investments are not 100% of my funds.
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Post by extremis on Dec 2, 2016 23:15:08 GMT
I am very happy to invest in the 13.2% buyback loans from Banknote. You should keep in mind that personal loans have very high default rates and Banknote loans issued under the new structure are even more risky: should Banknote ever goes under, you could loose everything invested with them, not only the loans that would actually default. I am not suggesting that Banknote is a bad choice but we should all be aware of the risks involved, buyback guarantee is not a 100% guarantee you will always get all your money back no matter what. AFAIK, in investing there is no such guarantee anyway...
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Post by Whitbourne on Dec 4, 2016 12:48:11 GMT
I am very happy to invest in the 13.2% buyback loans from Banknote. You should keep in mind that personal loans have very high default rates and Banknote loans issued under the new structure are even more risky: should Banknote ever goes under, you could loose everything invested with them, not only the loans that would actually default. I am not suggesting that Banknote is a bad choice but we should all be aware of the risks involved, buyback guarantee is not a 100% guarantee you will always get all your money back no matter what. AFAIK, in investing there is no such guarantee anyway... Thank you extremis, those are wise words. You are right that with Mintos, it is important to consider both the credit risk of the individual lender (Mogo, Lendo, Banknote and so on) as well as the credit risk of the platform itself. I am somewhat reassured by the measures that Mintos has put in place in the event of a default, with a contingency plan overseen by a firm of lawyers. I wonder if mvaltersmintos would like to comment on the due diligence that we as users can undertake on the underlying loan originators? Of course we can go to www.mintos.com/en/loan-originators/ and download the audited accounts, which is useful. Do the originators also have contingency plans like Mintos itself? Has Mintos reviewed these?
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Post by silverporka on Dec 5, 2016 12:54:46 GMT
I am very happy to invest in the 13.2% buyback loans from Banknote. You should keep in mind that personal loans have very high default rates and Banknote loans issued under the new structure are even more risky: should Banknote ever goes under, you could loose everything invested with them, not only the loans that would actually default. I am not suggesting that Banknote is a bad choice but we should all be aware of the risks involved, buyback guarantee is not a 100% guarantee you will always get all your money back no matter what. AFAIK, in investing there is no such guarantee anyway... Whitbourne - the other thing to think about though is the total return / profit you are locking in. The short term loans may be 13% today but next month they could be 10% or lower. These platforms fluctuate their rates quite a lot, and experience in more developed markets is that returns tend to go down over time for investors (that's also why so many loans tend to price at a premium on the SM). If you are buying a 5 year mortgage, you have some certainty over what you are earning on your investment for a reasonably long period of time.
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ptr120
Member of DD Central
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Post by ptr120 on Dec 5, 2016 15:15:13 GMT
My first default, 241530-01 (mentioned above) has been recovered in full
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Post by mopcku on Jan 2, 2017 11:02:23 GMT
Hi Guys
I have also a question regarding the defaults!
Is there a possibility to download the Mintos data in a way to be able to find out when was the last payment done? This is a one of the most important point when you analyze defaults!
Hier you can see example of such analysis
www.orchardplatform.com/blog/2014523vintage-analysis-how-loans-perform-with-age/
Of course this should be done only with the downloaded data without having to click Payment Schedule for each individual defaulted loan!
BR Mopcku
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fric
Member of DD Central
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Post by fric on Jan 16, 2017 9:46:14 GMT
One of my mortgage default was finished - the property was sold in an auction, and principal was paid in full as well as some interest and late fees. www.mintos.com/en/15354-01
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Post by red_panda on Jan 16, 2017 10:00:23 GMT
One of my mortgage default was finished - the property was sold in an auction, and principal was paid in full as well as some interest and late fees. www.mintos.com/en/15354-01I had invested in this loan as well. Completed auction around 6 months from default is a pretty good achievement.
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