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Post by silverporka on Oct 18, 2016 8:37:52 GMT
I'm having to recycle all the payments i am getting back into the secondary market because the primary market sucks right now.
There's no Hipocredit, which I thought offered the most attractive risk adjusted returns.
There's no guaranteed loans. Given the high delinquencies on the Mogo loans I just don't understand how anyone can buy these at these offered interest rates on a non-guaranteed basis. The vehicles are massively over-valued and once you take into account the fact that many will disappear and there are high costs of collection, the expected recovery rate on this stuff is going to be very low (i would guess 20-30% at best).
I don't trust the business loans at all, the payment histories are always super flaky and there seems to be a high likelihood of default.
There are a couple of new issuers but I never pick up any of their loans on the autobid.
Is it just me or is there not much worth buying right now? If anyone has found stuff they like I would love to hear about it.
I feel like I'm pretty much capped on how much I can invest on the platform at the moment, which is disappointing.
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Post by buttchopf23 on Oct 18, 2016 8:58:57 GMT
I have made good experiences with invoice financing.
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Post by extremis on Oct 18, 2016 11:16:48 GMT
Given the high delinquencies on the Mogo loans I just don't understand how anyone can buy these at these offered interest rates on a non-guaranteed basis. The vehicles are massively over-valued and once you take into account the fact that many will disappear and there are high costs of collection, the expected recovery rate on this stuff is going to be very low (i would guess 20-30% at best). Well, until now there is no bad debt, so people might get a false sense of safety. My guess is that as soon as bad debt starts to accumulate, people will think it twice before investing in unsecured high risk personal loans without buyback guarantee. Bad debt will also have an impact on Capitalia and even Hipocredit, but not as severe as on Mogo, imho. Anyway, as a result of high demand / low supply, PM does suck right now. What we are getting these days is loans with lower interest rates and higher risk. Last month there was a huge increase in loans sold on SM (especially with premium); new investors resort to SM to find attractive loans, while old ones make a profit from selling part of their portfolio. Unless there is some new Loan Originator with substantial loan supply added, or investors decide to withdraw their money from the platform, i don't see how the situation could improve.
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Post by littleinvestor on Oct 18, 2016 12:52:38 GMT
It has it moments, indeed last week was not too much of a success, though yesterday i got rid of half of my open amount (I only invest in secured min. 11.5% loans with a term up to 6m). I have in general maximum 6% of my total not invested (happened only once before the summer it went to 8%) - Im on the platform since January.
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m203
Member of DD Central
Posts: 54 
Likes: 6
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Post by m203 on Oct 18, 2016 13:01:13 GMT
It has it moments, indeed last week was not too much of a success, though yesterday i got rid of half of my open amount (I only invest in secured min. 11.5% loans with a term up to 6m). I have in general maximum 6% of my total not invested (happened only once before the summer it went to 8%) - Im on the platform since January. Which secured loans are you referring to? Car loans? BR Peter
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Post by littleinvestor on Oct 18, 2016 13:16:03 GMT
I take whichever loan originator - at the beginning I have invested half of my portfolio in car loans long duration at 12.5% - the other half I keep on AI 6 months min. 11.5% for whichever loan originator; runs fine. From time to time I picked an unsecured business loan (not worth it) or mortgage loan (worth it) with high interest by hand .
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m203
Member of DD Central
Posts: 54
Likes: 6
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Post by m203 on Oct 18, 2016 13:21:56 GMT
I take whichever loan originator - at the beginning I have invested half of my portfolio in car loans long duration at 12.5% - the other half I keep on AI 6 months min. 11.5% for whichever loan originator; runs fine. From time to time I picked an unsecured business loan (not worth it) or mortgage loan (worth it) with high interest by hand . Ok, thanks. Do you have any specific LTV levels for different loan types then?
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Post by littleinvestor on Oct 18, 2016 13:30:43 GMT
no I don't check LTV, unless I hand pick.
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Post by silverporka on Oct 18, 2016 14:18:04 GMT
Given the high delinquencies on the Mogo loans I just don't understand how anyone can buy these at these offered interest rates on a non-guaranteed basis. The vehicles are massively over-valued and once you take into account the fact that many will disappear and there are high costs of collection, the expected recovery rate on this stuff is going to be very low (i would guess 20-30% at best). Last month there was a huge increase in loans sold on SM (especially with premium); new investors resort to SM to find attractive loans, while old ones make a profit from selling part of their portfolio. I do find it weird that I can buy guaranteed Mogo loans on SM for ~12.5% YTM and yet others seem to be buying non-guaranteed loans at 13% coupon on PM. Makes no sense to me at all.... Maybe people believe the collaterals will give them a full recovery....?
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Post by piotrr on Oct 18, 2016 15:04:05 GMT
Last month there was a huge increase in loans sold on SM (especially with premium); new investors resort to SM to find attractive loans, while old ones make a profit from selling part of their portfolio. I do find it weird that I can buy guaranteed Mogo loans on SM for ~12.5% YTM and yet others seem to be buying non-guaranteed loans at 13% coupon on PM. Makes no sense to me at all.... Maybe people believe the collaterals will give them a full recovery....? I think this is the panic reaction on this: p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6835/warning-invest-mintos-before-readingRecent days all BB loans on SM were with premium (or these without premium immediately disappeared), today we have a lot of them without. I am still not sure what to think about that.
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Post by littleinvestor on Oct 18, 2016 15:11:06 GMT
Months ago the same happened with Twino - when they lowered their interest rates, all of the sudden people in panic. Now it is one of the best selling platforms. I normally don't find anything interesting on SM, but if people are foolish enough to believe an article where the author misinterpret and bases himself on Linkedin connections (really?) to identify company structures, and people believe this non sense and start selling with huge discounts, I will have a bit of fun on secondary market today :-)
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