oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 20, 2016 14:32:31 GMT
Oh! Hallo! I'm awaiting payment on this one too! What a disgrace.
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archie
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Post by archie on Oct 20, 2016 14:43:07 GMT
Oh! Hallo! I'm awaiting payment on this one too! What a disgrace. Me too. London 2 & London 4 as well.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 20, 2016 15:01:14 GMT
To default this project would put £1.6M of secured loans into loss and recovery. You can see why they would want to avoid that for as long as possible. I can't judge because I cannot evaluate the security. I defer to the opinion of those who actually hold it.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 20, 2016 16:47:45 GMT
Among the quoted comments, I notice that these snippets got missed...
So since the due date of 13th April - 1st May, depending on tranche, it's been on 12%pa, rather than 10% - as FC announced two days before the due date of the first tranche.
OK, it's coming as one big lump at the end instead of monthly. Oh, well. I can live with that, and I've got a rather undiverse chunk of my remaining FC funds in it - about 15%.
TripAdvisor reviews of the apart-hotels themselves seem a bit mixed.
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Post by thetimesbusiness on Oct 20, 2016 17:19:33 GMT
Hi there - I'm a journalist at The Times and am interested in any lenders' thoughts on P2P approaches to distressed / late loans. Have noticed that with FC, there appears to be a lot of anger about an alleged benign attitude which is very easy going on the borrowers. Anyone keen to express their views, please email me on james.hurley@thetimes.co.uk
Thanks
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 20, 2016 17:24:40 GMT
Ey-up! It's Jimmy (SS's friend? not forgetting DP and VP - still on the agenda). At least he's come in under his own name this time. Here you go Hor .... fill yer boots
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 20, 2016 20:53:19 GMT
Somehow, I think hor and our inky-fingered friend were made for each other.
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sl125
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Post by sl125 on Oct 21, 2016 11:19:46 GMT
Hor, could you explain what you mean by the two statements: 1. On 18th Oct you said "I have probably the record number of withdrawals in 2016 (over 100 in the last 6 months now)". 2. On 20th Oct you said " I regularly sell and buy volumes in the MILLIONS monthly"
Over 100 withdrawals in 6 months? wow, that's pretty much a withdrawal every working day... But a buy/sell rate in the "millions"? are we talking volume or amounts here?
Ok, cards on the table: what is the size of your FC portfolio now, and how much was your peak investment value?
Without wishing to enter a "whose is bigger" competition, I'm just curious what your goals are. I'm curious, also, about the amount of time you spend complaining (not just on these forums, but the formal complaints you have alluded to, which presumably has now been taken up with the Financial Ombudsman Service....). Given that time is money, do you factor the monetary value of that effort into your return calculations?
Personally, I started with FC 3 years ago and have steadily been increasing my holding (currently about £200k) since my net returns (after charges and defaults) have been about 10% per annum. My defaults are exceedingly low, largely because of my "strategy" (if that's the right word) of constantly selling (at premium mainly, but if they don't shift within 2 months, at par... which fly out of the door within 5 minutes). That's why I'm extremely sceptical of many of your claims about the time it is taking you to exit your portfolio (given your professed extensive investment experience, I'm assuming you made sound decisions, so they should be as easy to sell as mine... which are chosen using a very mechanistic process)
But maybe it's because I never went for property bridging loans, knowing that that particular market is particularly .... let's just say interesting... whether it is brokered by FC or any other platform. All in all... a healthy return compared to all other asset classes I hold.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 21, 2016 12:21:35 GMT
Agree with sl125. I have been with FC for over 4 years and am worried about not being able to keep my annual return, after losses and fees, above 11% in future. I will have bought more than £1m, and sold most of it. FC has matured and it is now harder to do much better than the average, which of course requires someone else's poor performance. Banging on about not being able to do 10% in future on FC is not really a criticism of FC, which advertises just over 7% (with caveats). They meet the targets they claim to, why should they meet the targets hor sets for them? BTW I do not think hor claimed to invest millions of pounds in FC monthy - could be some third world currency deal, or whatever. The problem seems to be that hor has not been successful in meeting his personal targets in FC - which I think is down to hor. (ps I have no connexion with FC other than a generally happy lender and forum commentator)
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Post by baronhardup on Oct 23, 2016 8:10:31 GMT
Like the rest of you, I'm really pissed fed up with FC particularly over this loan. Here is a copy of my recent correspondence with them. Me to them: Seems like these (ever-so-late) London short-term property loans are never going to be settled!
These 8 month loans due for repayment by around the end of April 2016 are now 5 months late and are still not settled. Looks to me like ******* *** who took out the loans never had any intention of repaying them by the due date!
What are you doing about it? And please, no more reassuring noises, I want some certainty. I want my cash back.
Is it not about time you foreclosed on this loan and invoked the first charge?
Them to me: ****** *****, Oct 5, 10:29 BST: Dear ******,
Thank you for your email.
I appreciate that you are dissatisfied with the delays that have occurred on loans 14978, 15010 and 15351.
The structure of property loans means that repayments may run over its scheduled term, with a number of factors influencing this.
With regards to the refinancing of this loan, there were various delays relating to the valuation report needed to complete the process. We appreciate this causes huge inconvenience to investors who are relying on the return of their owed funds and it is for this reason that we have determined that interest will continue to accrue for each day the payments are late, and the interest was subsequently increased by 2%.
The recent update for loans 14978, 15010 and 15351 stated that 'we understand from the borrower that they have instructed solicitors to act for them in relation to the refinance. We have spoken with the borrower's solicitors who have confirmed that they are instructed to complete the refinance as quickly as possible and they anticipate completion occurring within four weeks. The solicitors have also confirmed that they will endeavour to notify us within one business day if there are any material changes, specifically involving timescale.'
Whilst I understand that the recent loan comments have referred to timescales, these have been relayed to investors based on our understanding of the loan circumstances from the borrower at the time. We endeavour to keep investors updated and stick to the outlined timelines, however, unforeseen circumstances can result in delays.
With regards to Property loans, we will not consider a default in the same way as a standard loan. Funding Circle will default a loan if the borrower is unable or unwilling to repay their loan, as per the loan contract. This means that we will default a property loan if we are uncertain that the properties will complete, or if we believe the borrower is not in a position to pay the remaining amount of the loan. At present, we do believe that the borrowers will be able to make full repayments, upon completion of the refinance.
Further to that, it is worth noting that defaulting a property loan is likely to be counter-productive. Following the course of exercising first-charge is likely to take a number of months. When a loan becomes late it is in default of the loan agreement. However, Funding Circle has its own meaning of "default" which is, in essence the point at which we accelerate and terminate the loan, and then enforce the security (including any guarantees). The action of "defaulting", which is irreversible, may involve significantly increased costs and, if we appoint a receiver or administrator, may affect the value of the property. It is "going nuclear".
You may find the following information useful in providing more detail about Property loans: support.fundingcircle.com/entries/51145918-Property-Development-Loan support.fundingcircle.com/entries/51591616-How-will-repayments-work-on-a-property-loan- support.fundingcircle.com/entries/51077747-What-due-diligence-does-Funding-Circle-perform-for-property-loans-
Please be assured that we appreciate the ongoing frustration repayment delays are causing to investors and the property team are doing their utmost to liaise with the borrower and settle this loan. We will always attempt to work with the borrower and assess each loan on a case by case basis and will only default a loan if we are confident that we have explored all avenues. If we determine that a borrower has become uncooperative or unwilling, then we will react accordingly, whether it be through default or legal action.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or comments.
Best regards, ******First, I HATE the platitudes FC trot out "... we appreciate the frustration..", yeh, right, "... doing our utmost..." don't make me laugh. Second, the promise of 2% is meaningless if the loan is never going to get repaid! It's just another platitude to make us lenders feel better. Lastly, if the loan has not been defaulted, why am I prevented from offering the loan parts for sale? For example, I might be willing to offer a substantial discount in order to recover the bulk of my cash. I am withdrawing my cash from FC as loans get repaid, I don't trust them any more. Lost my faith in them when they dropped the 'Dutch Auction' approach. BaronHardUp
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 23, 2016 8:53:29 GMT
Defaulting the loan is much more likely to result in a bad outcome for lenders than giving the borrower time to get the refinance done.
The difficult judgement is when do you lose faith in the borrower and press the nuclear button. FC have explained why we are not there yet and on the basis of what they have written I would agree them 100%.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 23, 2016 8:58:42 GMT
Thanks, Baron. The point is that they have only the nuclear option - apart perhaps from their late fees at 90 days late, which does not go to lenders. It is a pretty clear statement that they are not going to default a property loan for lateness, and that lateness can be expected routinely - usually at the same interest rate. And that they have no ways of enforcing the term, nor really any wish to do so. As said elsewhere they are using a term loan to extend a line of credit, because they do not have contracts or systems appropriate to the type of loan they wish to make. And of course it is essential that Autobid and the SM can be used as if it were a term loan. It seems we either adapt to these loans or, when the outstanding have paid, avoid property loans if we cannot tolerate late payment or having to sell them early. I don't think anyone has made a case for expecting losses, which would be a different issue.
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am
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Post by am on Oct 23, 2016 8:59:03 GMT
Lastly, if the loan has not been defaulted, why am I prevented from offering the loan parts for sale? For example, I might be willing to offer a substantial discount in order to recover the bulk of my cash. FC has always disallowed the resale of loan parts with less that some number (1? 2?) repayments left. (This had the anomaly the late payers could be traded nearer the due date than up-to-date loans - I once turned on autobid (in the days of auctions) to attempt to catch earlier closers, and autobid bought me a part in a persistent late payer at a nominal rate of 27%, but it paid up several weeks late, with a true interest rate rather lower.) Given that late-running property loans are continuing to accrue interest there is an argument that FC should change that policy for them. But perhaps they ought to fix the system, so the interest is paid as it accrues first. And there is the problem that autobiddees might complain if they find themselves buying loan parts in such loans. If trading in this loan had not already been disabled you might have found FC RBR'ing it. Edit: I might be happy enough to by discounted parts in Newquay.
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blender
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Post by blender on Oct 23, 2016 10:25:16 GMT
Lastly, if the loan has not been defaulted, why am I prevented from offering the loan parts for sale? For example, I might be willing to offer a substantial discount in order to recover the bulk of my cash. FC has always disallowed the resale of loan parts with less that some number (1? 2?) repayments left. (This had the anomaly the late payers could be traded nearer the due date than up-to-date loans - I once turned on autobid (in the days of auctions) to attempt to catch earlier closers, and autobid bought me a part in a persistent late payer at a nominal rate of 27%, but it paid up several weeks late, with a true interest rate rather lower.) Given that late-running property loans are continuing to accrue interest there is an argument that FC should change that policy for them. But perhaps they ought to fix the system, so the interest is paid as it accrues first. And there is the problem that autobiddees might complain if they find themselves buying loan parts in such loans. If trading in this loan had not already been disabled you might have found FC RBR'ing it. Edit: I might be happy enough to by discounted parts in Newquay. You cannot sell a loan with one payment left. Two is fine. But you also cannot sell a loan which is not fully up to date with its scheduled payments (unfortunately), even by a day. I like the idea of being able to offer distressed FC parts at a discount. Would probably compete with am to buy Newquay.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 11, 2016 15:00:43 GMT
Well, this IS getting interesting.
T1 is now 212 days late.
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