james
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Post by james on Nov 16, 2016 0:06:55 GMT
But in the context of a thread started by a potential new lender on MT, hopefully my post is a useful counter-balance to the predominantly positive views of most MT lenders. It is useful in part because this is is the second time that a partner has provided misleading information to lenders. The fine folk at Broadoak at least seem to have realised much of the issue and dealt with it as well as they were able after it happened, and since dealing with problems is key, that's a very good sign. The other partner doesn't even seem to have recognised that not providing misleading information matters, so none of my money will be going their way in any future offers they may make. Partner-related risk is one of the potential growing pain issues for any platform so paying attention to them is prudent, as is observing which ones do the better job - or at least a decent job - of dealing with the matter.
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Post by mrclondon on Nov 16, 2016 1:03:42 GMT
To address a point made by an earlier poster, unless I specifcally post with a [mod hat on] or [Admin note] tag immediately before the text, I am posting my own personal opinions. Such opinions have been formed based on my experience of ten years of p2p investing (which now encompases a substantial 6 figure investment split across multiple platforms), and the significant amount of research and due dilligence I do on platforms and loans. I am just one voice, and am relatively risk averse by nature, although I am generally bullish on good quality inner London property, and regard such security as sound. For the avoidance of doubt, I have not, and am not questioning the soundness of the security for loan BPF585. Whether 10% has been a fair yield against the security over the last 6 months and for the next 6 months is though open to debate in light of what has been revealed over the last few days. I have had the opportunity over recent months to discuss with the FCA my detailed analysis of how lenders are potentially being misled through deficeincies in the way p2p loan security is presented to lenders by many platforms and their introducers, making accurate risk assement on loans impossible in many cases. I tend to agree with the sentitiments of the Treasury Select Committee summarised in the article I've linked from a few months back, which included the line "Poorly informed investors may be left with a false sense of security about the balance of risks versus returns." On Sunday, I was that poorly informed investor left with a false sense of security about the balance of risks versus returns, and I naively added my extra £100. I agree with james , Broadoak have probably done the best they could after the event, and hopefully have learnt a lesson the hard way. An this stage in the economic cycle, and particularly with the uncertaintities of the impact of Trump and brexit on GDP growth in western economies, yields of 10-13% as offered by MT/SS/FS/ABL not to mention the 7-10% at AC are beginning to look very marginal once expected capital losses are factored in. I'd be really surprised if there was even one forum member who views p2p lending as gambling, money they are genuinely happy to throw away for the entertainment value (the house margin means long term gambling ends up with the house taking all). Investment decisions should only be made with access to reliable up to date information and lots of it. It is informative to study the extent of the financial disclosure that companies on say AIM have to make into the public domain and compare that to the level of disclosure made by p2p borrowers. Without such information, and with the prospect of capital losses exceeding interest as the economic cycle heads south over the next few years, are we simply kidding ourselves that we are not gambling ?
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woodie
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Post by woodie on Nov 16, 2016 6:41:39 GMT
James, I thought I was up to date with all things Thing but could you point me in the direction of that second Partner. Thanks.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 16, 2016 8:09:46 GMT
An this stage in the economic cycle, and particularly with the uncertaintities of the impact of Trump and brexit on GDP growth in western economies, yields of 10-13% as offered by MT/SS/FS/ABL not to mention the 7-10% at AC are beginning to look very marginal once expected capital losses are factored in. I'd be really surprised if there was even one forum member who views p2p lending as gambling, money they are genuinely happy to throw away for the entertainment value (the house margin means long term gambling ends up with the house taking all). Investment decisions should only be made with access to reliable up to date information and lots of it. It is informative to study the extent of the financial disclosure that companies on say AIM have to make into the public domain and compare that to the level of disclosure made by p2p borrowers. Without such information, and with the prospect of capital losses exceeding interest as the economic cycle heads south over the next few years, are we simply kidding ourselves that we are not gambling ? A salutary illustration for me of the perils of relying on historic LTVs is the "Scottish Property" loan over on Assetz Capital, which offered lenders 10.5% return secured at 60% LTV against 7 buy-to-let flats. 2 years later, the borrower stopped paying and disappeared and the flats were found to be in a dreadful state. They've eventually sold at auction for just 40% of the original valuation, roughly 45% of which is then taken for administrator fees, sale costs, platform fees, etc. leaving AC lenders facing a likely capital loss of roughly 62 pence in the pound. "Safe as houses" ... ?
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Post by martin44 on Nov 16, 2016 8:27:47 GMT
Yes, there will probably be rumblings now of suing the valuer, Not being in this loan, i am assuming the valuer would have made his valuation assumption based on the facts that the flats would be finished to a good standard and marketable, realizing 50% of true worth at auction is not that uncommon, personally i would blame AC's DD in this matter, if the flats were found to be in an 'awful state' , that would suggest that AC has not been keeping an eye on the build progression.
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james
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Post by james on Nov 16, 2016 9:01:22 GMT
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woodie
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Post by woodie on Nov 16, 2016 10:05:08 GMT
Thanks James .... yes this was one of a very few loans that I didn't take part in. My reason was that I worried that, considering the small volume of the product involved, something or someone could accidentally spoil the contents of the tank before bottling.
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investibod
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Post by investibod on Nov 16, 2016 14:06:24 GMT
To address a point made by an earlier poster, unless I specifcally post with a [mod hat on] or [Admin note] tag immediately before the text, I am posting my own personal opinions. Such opinions have been formed based on my experience of ten years of p2p investing (which now encompases a substantial 6 figure investment split across multiple platforms), and the significant amount of research and due dilligence I do on platforms and loans. Maybe you could add a short note to this effect in your signature line? It could help to stop similar confusion in the future. Having recently sang the praises of Broadoak in another thread, I have to say that their handling of this case left significant room for improvement. Hopefully it will be treated as a learning experience and they will not make the same mistakes in the future. I accept that mistakes happen and am quite prepared to give people a second chance. If it starts to look like it has become a habit, then I start to look elsewhere.
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james
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Post by james on Nov 16, 2016 20:29:42 GMT
I'm thinking about moving some to MT, as people seem to be impressed by the platform. I recommend that you do, and also to Ablrate. Both seem to do well with MoneyThing more responsive on customer service but both way up there. MoneyThing is notably faster at withdrawing money, Ablrate faster at debit card paying in, notably overnight. Some dislike the Ablrate secondary market but I like it and it's currently usually easier to get new money invested there than at MoneyThing via the secondary market. A big upgrade to the way the secondary market operates - new contract handling approach - means that it is a bit threadbare because people have to recreate their offers to sell and that'll take people a little while. The MoneyThing secondary market is also a very important tool to getting new money invested though you'll have to try at different times of day to find availability, which can be sparse at times. I've invested about £20,000 via the secondary market over the last month or so. The AE* loans tend to be easiest to buy into and I like the AE car hire purchase ones because of security over both HP repayments and cars that I think makes an excellent combination. Before I dive in, I'd like to know, have there been defaults on MT since the site was launched? If so, did the investors get paid in full, after sale of the asset? If they did not get paid, then what happened, please? None so far at MoneyThing. Ablrate is working through their first with extreme diligence, perhaps the best handling I've ever seen in P2P including things like getting an emergency freezing order at the High Court affecting both the company and individual involved. I expect full or nearly full recovery within a few more weeks.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Nov 16, 2016 21:38:12 GMT
To address a point made by an earlier poster, unless I specifcally post with a [mod hat on] or [Admin note] tag immediately before the text, I am posting my own personal opinions. Such opinions have been formed based on my experience of ten years of p2p investing (which now encompases a substantial 6 figure investment split across multiple platforms), and the significant amount of research and due dilligence I do on platforms and loans. Maybe you could add a short note to this effect in your signature line? It could help to stop similar confusion in the future. Having recently sang the praises of Broadoak in another thread, I have to say that their handling of this case left significant room for improvement. Hopefully it will be treated as a learning experience and they will not make the same mistakes in the future. I accept that mistakes happen and am quite prepared to give people a second chance. If it starts to look like it has become a habit, then I start to look elsewhere. Very true mistakes do happen and one should always be vigilant...cant recall any previous problems with Broadoak...so personally I'm not unduly worried
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bababill
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Post by bababill on Nov 16, 2016 23:54:48 GMT
I second that. A long time back I questioned the same partner on another platform and said the information provided seems very misleading and contradictory. I did receive a response but the issue left a bad taste in my mouth and so I avoided the loans.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Nov 17, 2016 7:16:30 GMT
I second that. A long time back I questioned the same partner on another platform and said the information provided seems very misleading and contradictory. I did receive a response but the issue left a bad taste in my mouth and so I avoided the loans. Could you say which partner on which platform?
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bababill
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Post by bababill on Nov 18, 2016 0:36:34 GMT
Good guess... For the record this partner has been highly successful on the other platform; I think- I haven't done a proper study; just overall feeling I get. There is a great TC forum to read for more insight if you become a member.
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