r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on May 23, 2017 10:19:39 GMT
Now 23rd and still no update on our 530k hole in the wall.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 23, 2017 11:01:30 GMT
Now 23rd and still no update on our 530k hole in the wall. An update was added to some (but not all) of the tranches on the 20th: " Borrower has been in regular contact this week. He met with the contractor onsite last week and has promised to send the contractor's work schedule as soon as he receives it. Work is due to restart next week. The borrower also updated us on his court case and has provided clear evidence that this is proceeding. He is the claimant in the case and there is committal hearing on the 2nd of June before a Supreme Court Judge." (search "All Active & Past Loans" for "Whitehaven")
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on May 23, 2017 11:42:15 GMT
Now 23rd and still no update on our 530k hole in the wall. An update was added to some (but not all) of the tranches on the 20th: " Borrower has been in regular contact this week. He met with the contractor onsite last week and has promised to send the contractor's work schedule as soon as he receives it. Work is due to restart next week. The borrower also updated us on his court case and has provided clear evidence that this is proceeding. He is the claimant in the case and there is committal hearing on the 2nd of June before a Supreme Court Judge." (search "All Active & Past Loans" for "Whitehaven") Thanks Steve. It would be nice if they added the update to tranche five though, the one I have on the basis that it was all going well and the loan would never exceed 30%. Five tranches paid out for what, precisely? All I see is a hole in the buildings with £530,000 laid out?!
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 23, 2017 12:22:24 GMT
Thanks Steve. It would be nice if they added the update to tranche five though, the one I have on the basis that it was all going well and the loan would never exceed 30%. Five tranches paid out for what, precisely? All I see is a hole in the buildings with £530,000 laid out?! Ah, but tranche 5 was only 1 day overdue on 20th May. No need to worry holders unduly (yet)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 23, 2017 15:56:07 GMT
... and the loan would never exceed 30%. r1200gs: 30% of what? (Or was that a typo?)
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on May 23, 2017 16:02:11 GMT
From the photos I fail to see any real progress.
Please, can anyone who has experience or knowledge in building explain the progress reports as I really don't understand them. I know that the Aframes have been purchased (according to FS) and are held by the company building the new homes and they say the basic ground work is complete. If the project goes bottoms up will the AFrames be able to be sold for the price they were bought? Does the demolished site equate to the significant update in value? If you take into account value the AFrames does their value explain the significant increase in the value of the loan.
Just trying to understand why the value has significantly increased when the site photos indicate the building work is stalled.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on May 23, 2017 16:26:11 GMT
Re the "urgent on site meeting" FS were asking for as per update 24/4/17 to assess the progress of the building work. Does anyone know if it has actually taken place and what was the outcome? Or perhaps FS were just trying to placate lenders and they had no intention of having a "site meeting".
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phil
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Post by phil on May 24, 2017 1:47:48 GMT
Now 23rd and still no update on our 530k hole in the wall. If investors lose money on this "hole in the wall" it will be because FS allowed the lending of £530k on a "valuation" of £800k. This is supposed to be a pawn site where borrowers can borrow up to 70% of the value of their security without being credit checked. Given that borrowers are not credit checked it is critical for lenders best interests that the pawned security is valued accurately. FS claim that all securities are professionally valued, I'd like to see the professional valuation for £800k for this hole in the wall. The original valuation stated that developers profit was estimated to be £156k. It seems to me that the borrower has already received his profit within the £530k advance and that he has none of his own money invested in this project. In short, as I see it, the borrower has little incentive to finish this project, in fact he has barely started it. Going to be interesting to see how this one pans out, I'm struggling to see how the site as it stands now is worth even half the £530k already advanced, let alone £800k. Edit: Regarding the recent update: "contractor's work schedule", "court case", "committal hearing" and "Supreme Court Judge" all have nothing to do with investors in this loan, investors should be sitting pretty with a security that has a professional valuation of £800k with a high likelihood of being able to recover at least £530k in a forced sale. Investors did not lend on the outcome of court cases, they lent on the valuation of the security.
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sb
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Post by sb on May 24, 2017 7:57:35 GMT
If investors lose money on this "hole in the wall" it will be because FS allowed the lending of £530k on a "valuation" of £800k. This is supposed to be a pawn site where borrowers can borrow up to 70% of the value of their security without being credit checked. Given that borrowers are not credit checked it is critical for lenders best interests that the pawned security is valued accurately. FS claim that all securities are professionally valued, I'd like to see the professional valuation for £800k for this hole in the wall. The original valuation stated that developers profit was estimated to be £156k. It seems to me that the borrower has already received his profit within the £530k advance and that he has none of his own money invested in this project. In short, as I see it, the borrower has little incentive to finish this project, in fact he has barely started it. Going to be interesting to see how this one pans out, I'm struggling to see how the site as it stands now is worth even half the £530k already advanced, let alone £800k. Edit: Regarding the recent update: "contractor's work schedule", "court case", "committal hearing" and "Supreme Court Judge" all have nothing to do with investors in this loan, investors should be sitting pretty with a security that has a professional valuation of £800k with a high likelihood of being able to recover at least £530k in a forced sale. Investors did not lend on the outcome of court cases, they lent on the valuation of the security. There was no valuation for the last tranche, for the previous ones the were some back of an envelope estimations probably done internally by FS or the borrower himself. I am expecting a wall of silence from FS about this as they don't want to admit any liability. There is a little chance for FS to compensate voluntarily for losses as the sum is too big. The most likely scenario for me is FS will drag this this for 1-2 years trying to make money as long as possible and hoping the lenders accept losses without making a big fuss. I agree that the borrower has very little incentive to finish the project at the moment but I think FS is trying all it can to push the borrower to do this with the limited tools they have.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on May 24, 2017 9:44:05 GMT
I have been a virtual Lone Ranger on here with my haranguing regarding shoddy/worthless/laughable "Valuation Reports" by "RICS Professionals" which in many cases seem artificially concocted to serve the interests of Borrowers and/or Platforms, at the expense of Investors.
Many have pooh poohed my rants on here with a "That's the way it is, just accept it" attitude, which is SO wrong.
Now, perhaps, the seriousness of this "nice little earner" racket is sinking in and Investors may wish to vigorously Complain to RICS and the FCS?
And we won't talk about VERY important/salient/vital information/facts being "inadvertently" or arguably deliberately omitted from Loan Particulars.
( NOTE: The foregoing comments are not directed at Funding Secure, they are comments on the Peer to Peer industry as a whole. )
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on May 24, 2017 10:45:59 GMT
In a previous update it does say that the director of the company has given a personal guarantee so if the loan doesn't work out I assume FS will demand the guarantee is honoured.
I must say I have never rated personal guarantees as it is all too easy to dispose of assets but perhaps the threat of enforcing it will "encourage" the director to repay the loan.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on May 24, 2017 12:41:29 GMT
I think that if FS were to call the guarantee they would have done so by now. I would write this one down to 30% of capital and rely on good diversification.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on May 25, 2017 22:12:50 GMT
I'm quite disgusted reading this. I'm in this one for a small amount but I will be trying to pull out of FS as soon as possible.
My understanding is the FS doesn't lend anything to the borrowers so apart from lender confidence they don't really care if loans go bad.
I am no legal expert, but I wonder if there might be a case against FS and even its directors since gross negligence seems a possibility. I don't have time or the skill to lead such a charge but if someone else on the forum feels there is a case to answer, I would happily join any class action.
As a tiny aside, I have no industry credentials but in all the plots being developed close to where I live (there have been several), the first step is always demolition and that included removing the old footings/foundations and basically turning the site into a clean muddy field. The pics I've seen look like the demolition phase is not complete.
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Post by charliebrown on May 27, 2017 1:56:47 GMT
When I invest in a FS loan I usually invest pretty big to get the bonus interest etc. My typical plunge is >10k. I've just checked my holdings in this loan and miraculously it's only 300 quid. I'm not sure how I ended up with only 300 quid but I literally punched the air when I realised my personal losses will be "manageable".
having seen the pics and read this thread and FS updates I have already mentally written off my 300 quid.
The serious part, this is disgraceful. The management of this is gross incompetence by FS. I have significant investment on FS and will be removing all of it as soon as I can. P2p lending is for most of us about trust and confidence. FS has lost all my trust, confidence and respect over this.
Not impressed!
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on May 27, 2017 6:46:11 GMT
When I invest in a FS loan I usually invest pretty big to get the bonus interest etc. My typical plunge is >10k. I've just checked my holdings in this loan and miraculously it's only 300 quid. I'm not sure how I ended up with only 300 quid but I literally punched the air when I realised my personal losses will be "manageable". having seen the pics and read this thread and FS updates I have already mentally written off my 300 quid. The serious part, this is disgraceful. The management of this is gross incompetence by FS. I have significant investment on FS and will be removing all of it as soon as I can. P2p lending is for most of us about trust and confidence. FS has lost all my trust, confidence and respect over this. Not impressed! I think it's pretty much all been said when it comes to this loan. I too am winding down my investment on FS as I like to sleep nights. Five tranches of a loan handed out, only one phase of the work completed and that's the purchase of the site. My guess is the site might be worth £200,000 when we have handed him over half a million with reassurances from FS that work was well advanced and that this loan would not exceed 70 percent of the value of our security. Unreal. I can only hope that the faith shown by FS in this borrower turns out to be justified, but I for one have had my faith in the platform shot to pieces. As one poster has said, we lend on security, not the outcome of court cases and the possibility of the borrower doing the right thing in the future. Like you, my one saving grace is that my holding in this is a small one.
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