destie
New Member
Posts: 4 
Likes: 4
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Post by destie on Dec 22, 2016 9:15:54 GMT
Hy guys
I wanted to share my P2P Euro experience.
On 13/09/2016 I started with a small capital investing, 2000 euros, into 4 different platform:
And after 100 days, I have made my conclusions and this is the result:
Bondora, 515.46
Twino, 514.81
Mintos, 512.79
Viventor, 507
Twino: The winner for me!!!! A high return with buy back guarantee. Especially the quick buyback, after 30 days, has led to better results in comparison with Mintos.
But in overall a good platform, auto invest work correctly, loan offer is excellent, …
Mintos: Second place, also good return but the buyback is after 60 days. So your cash is longer unavailable. You can see this if you compare the results of Twino and Mintos, (515 vs 513). Still a good place to invest if you want to diversify (platform risk).
Viventor: The offer of loans is/was too low, so my capital was often doing nothing! Also promised returns are maxed to 12%, so Twino and Mintos are better, they give higher return with also a buyback. I only recommend Viventor if you want to diversify you P2P portfolio (platform risk).
Bondora: I’m the most disappointed in this platform, despite it gave me (for the moment) the highest return.
But you have to take everything into account; at this moment my potential loss on principal of outstanding loans is 125 euro. (Twino, Mintos and Viventor = ZERO). So currently I don’t believe I will have a return at the end.
First of all, for the level of risk you take as an investor with Bondora the return should be much higher! Twino’s return (with buyback) is currently about 11% and Bondora’s return (without buyback) is 11,30%. The difference in return is marginal but the difference in risk is immense!
Secondly the Debt servicing cost – issue. You can really find a lot of information about this issue. My conclusion, it sucks and it is not in the interest of the investor. Bondora should really reconsider their set up and at least guarantee your principal. For the moment Bondora fails to grasp the point of view of an investor. You really have the feeling, they don’t care.
My conclusion of Bondora, I stopped the portfolio manager and I’m looking for a different platform (investly, estateguru, swaper, …). I won’t recommend this platform. On a side note, the day after I stopped the portfolio manager, Bondora called me and asked me the reasons, I explained the situation. Let me say, it was very silent on the other side of the phone after my explanation.
I hope to find other reviews like this, for other platforms. I'm now serious looking into investly and estateguru for expanding my P2P Portfolio.
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Post by bkracan on Dec 22, 2016 9:59:15 GMT
I think that twino have also 60 days buyback.
I only invest in twino and mintos (i am also just a couple of months in p2p), boath are great, but i also like twino little more.
Estateguru: i was thinking to invest in this platform, but every time i look at their page all loans are fully invested.
Bondora: they have realy bad financial results for last couple of years, and I am not sure how long this company can run (with such results).
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Post by red_panda on Dec 22, 2016 15:15:40 GMT
You're looking at it from a current perspective, but it is not long ago that Twino went down with rates to 10% and then back up again. Rates won't be fixed forever and the buy-back guarantee holds only while Twino itself is surviving. It would be unwise for you to move all your funds to just Twino solely based on a short term experience of slightly higher returns. Difersivy not only in loans but also in platforms. A buy-back guarantee will never mean 0% risk.
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destie
New Member
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Post by destie on Dec 23, 2016 9:11:31 GMT
Red_panda, I fully agree with you.
After my 100 days experience, I'm only quitting Bondora (with a long term exit strategy). I'm fairly new in P2P investing and still learning. I'm even now looking into other platforms to expand my platform-portfolio. My first thoughts were Investly and Estateguru.
But you have to find a good balance between the platform risk and the minimal investment in a loan, which is often minimal 10 euros so often your returns can not be directly reinvested. No investment = no return.
Does anyone ever calculate the capital you need and the volume of loan you must invest to receive each day a return of 10 euro? That could be interesting to maximize your returns.
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Post by yoica on Dec 23, 2016 11:01:08 GMT
Does anyone ever calculate the capital you need and the volume of loan you must invest to receive each day a return of 10 euro? That could be interesting to maximize your returns.
It all depends at what the interest is and do you include principle payment as part of the 10 euro? Calculating 10 euro per day return based on interest only is easy, but if you include principle payments it becomes incredible complex since loan duration will influence the amount of principle repaid as does the type of amortization. So assuming 10 euro per day from interest only: €10 / (annual interest/365) = the amount invested you need. Based on 10% annual interest you would need €36500 invested. Also consider that loans (generally) only pay out loan once a month you would €36500 worth of loans to pay interest on the same date. Taking this into account you would be €1,110,330 invested to get €10 interest each and every day.
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kulerucket
Member of DD Central
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Post by kulerucket on Dec 27, 2016 18:54:44 GMT
I am doing something similar with these four and plan to add viainvest as well. I am only about 2 months in and haven't started them all at the same time. Only Twino, Mintos and Bondora so far. I reason that with the 5 I can still break even in under 2 years if one of them goes bankrupt and I lose 100% of the investment in that one and the others survive making 12-13%.
I don't understand your reasoning behind Mintos being lower because the buyback takes longer. On both Twino and Mintos, I've seen that you get the full principle + interest up to the day of the buyback so even though Mintos takes 60 days, your investment is still earning full interest. It shouldn't make a difference as long as the buyback is honoured.
I have reservations about Bondora too. Although the interest rates are higher, I'm not convinced by the Portfolio manager's strategy. Although I've selected the balanced option, it seems to invest in quite a few 150%+ HR loans where I can see the person already has multiple payday loans and is obviously in serious trouble. I see no chance of seeing any money back from those and would never have bought into them by choice. Time will tell if enough of those ones are successful enough to balance the risk.
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Post by extremis on Dec 27, 2016 21:42:58 GMT
I don't understand your reasoning behind Mintos being lower because the buyback takes longer. On both Twino and Mintos, I've seen that you get the full principle + interest up to the day of the buyback so even though Mintos takes 60 days, your investment is still earning full interest. It shouldn't make a difference as long as the buyback is honoured. True, in the long run it shouldn't make any difference, but if you started investing just a couple months ago there would be a difference in (perceived) returns.
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yacop
Posts: 68
Likes: 42
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Post by yacop on Dec 28, 2016 10:55:43 GMT
Does anyone ever calculate the capital you need and the volume of loan you must invest to receive each day a return of 10 euro? That could be interesting to maximize your returns.
It all depends at what the interest is and do you include principle payment as part of the 10 euro? Calculating 10 euro per day return based on interest only is easy, but if you include principle payments it becomes incredible complex since loan duration will influence the amount of principle repaid as does the type of amortization. So assuming 10 euro per day from interest only: €10 / (annual interest/365) = the amount invested you need. Based on 10% annual interest you would need €36500 invested. Also consider that loans (generally) only pay out loan once a month you would €36500 worth of loans to pay interest on the same date. Taking this into account you would be €1,110,330 invested to get €10 interest each and every day. 36500 Euro is enough to get 10 Euro every day at 10% interest rate.
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Post by yoica on Jan 3, 2017 8:09:11 GMT
36500 Euro is enough to get 10 Euro every day at 10% interest rate. It isn't. 36500 EUR is enough to get a 10 EUR per day average. Since there (almost) no loans shorter than 1 month with 36500 EUR you get 12 payments of 304.17 EUR, but Destie specifically asked for how much 'you must invest to receive each day a return of 10 euro?'
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yacop
Posts: 68
Likes: 42
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Post by yacop on Jan 4, 2017 16:38:37 GMT
36500 Euro is enough to get 10 Euro every day at 10% interest rate. It isn't. 36500 EUR is enough to get a 10 EUR per day average. Since there (almost) no loans shorter than 1 month with 36500 EUR you get 12 payments of 304.17 EUR, but Destie specifically asked for how much 'you must invest to receive each day a return of 10 euro?' I think Destie meant 10 Euro per day on average.
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dme
Posts: 10
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Post by dme on Jan 4, 2017 18:43:57 GMT
I think that twino have also 60 days buyback. I think they changed it some time ago "TWINO will buy back loan (principal amount and accrued interest for full term), if a borrower is late with the repayment for over 30 days.", www.twino.eu/
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