ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 31, 2016 8:47:12 GMT
/mod hat definitely off I've bid on this,..... 4. The valuation report provided.... Are lenders even meant to be able to see it / make use of it? I have raised similar queries with respect to SS' valuation reports in the past. If FCA is pressing on information, this same information has to be legally available to us lenders.
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ben
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Post by ben on Dec 31, 2016 11:08:26 GMT
Raided the sofa to put my few pennies in, seems a popular pub and decent location so even in quick sale should go for the loan amount. The other security I have pretty much ignored as I would rather lend on security of the actual loan, the rest is just a bonus and would probably be difficult to actually get anything from.
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Post by ablrate on Jan 2, 2017 13:36:16 GMT
Hi All
Happy New Year!
Just some answers to questions from the borrower..
What is the value of the rest of the SIPP portfolio?
-There is a statement attached in the 'Documents' section
Is this a pooled investment with other SIPP loans?
-A SIPP operates like a company, as separate legal entity that can own assets etc. In the case of the pub the loan is a 1st charge security over the asset and so the creditors have control over the asset should the loan fail and claim against the SIPP should there be a shortfall.
'Trying to claim against a SIPP is as likely to success as a claim against a PG on a family home'
-We would argue that PG's fail when not properly executed. If a personal guarantee is properly executed, with the borrowers taking legal advice and any other residents signing waivers there is a very clear path to successfully enforcing the PG. Of course the court will allow adequate time for the occupants to relocate but the house will be sold if the PG has been executed correctly. The SIPP is just an entity like a company, however making a claim against it is more straight forward simply because there are rules that the SIPP, and the Trustee, must obey. In this case the property would be seized and sold and the SIPP claimed against for any shortfall.
Do lenders have a direct line of recourse to the property or the SIPP?
-Yes to both. So if the loan fails, we have first charge on the property (via assignment) and the SIPP will be liable for any shortfall.
What is the spelling of AH name?
-Two LLs, (corrected on the details page - ABL).
Does a SIPP count as an asset in a PG claim? -There isn't a straight forward answer to this, but for the purposes of this lend we are not worrying too much about that. The LTV is 51% and AH and his business are very solvent.
What are the order's of charges in the SIPP given we have already lent to it?
- This is a completely separate transaction. Each lend has security against separate assets of which a legal 1st charge is held.
There were a lot of comments about the valuation report and someone not liking the way it was written or apart amount of 'assumptions' - We use expert valuers for these transactions who have adequate insurance cover should anything go wrong. They cannot possibly analyse everything to the nth degree, but wherever they have concern they clearly reference this. Ultimately the valuation they give (and put their insurance cover too) is based on all the information known to them.
Is there a lease to the operating company on the property?
Yes it is £36,500K per annum in rent paid to the SIPP
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 2, 2017 14:55:55 GMT
Thanks for the answers, I've topped up my investment.
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james
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Post by james on Jan 3, 2017 2:47:53 GMT
Photos give the impression that AH may currently be aged 55 or older. Please confirm that AH is of at least that age or if not say when within the loan term that age will be reached. The relevance is of course the possible prohibition on going bankrupt without first using pension funds to clear debts once pension money is drawable, meaning age 55 for a SIPP. Now, with the SIPP trustees having signed on as liable I think that this is unlikely to become relevant, since funds will be paid out of the SIPP at any age consistent with the undertaking of the trustees. But it is still good to know about unlikely situations. For those unfamiliar with the insolvency situation since the Horton V. Henry case resolution in October 2016, see: Is your pension safe if you go bankrupt? (case 5) Undrawn pension entitlements in insolvency: summary of new guidance
The decision also summarises the pre-insolvency law that pension pots after they can be taken should be used to satisfy judgements. Things aren't as simple as this summary, it's just a summary and pointer to more. And there are some real insolvency pros here who could give a much better description of the real world effects, I'm sure!
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 3, 2017 8:50:25 GMT
Hi All There were a lot of comments about the valuation report and someone not liking the way it was written or apart amount of 'assumptions' - We use expert valuers for these transactions who have adequate insurance cover should anything go wrong. They cannot possibly analyse everything to the nth degree, but wherever they have concern they clearly reference this. Ultimately the valuation they give (and put their insurance cover too) is based on all the information known to them. Thanks for responding on this ablrate , however I am still not comfortable with the valuation report situation. Was the valuation report actually prepared for our borrower (/ their SIPP)? The reason I ask is that it states "This report has been prepared by Jo Bloggs (Registered Valuer No. xxxxxxxx) for the exclusive use of the UK Arm of a large international brewer and for the stated purpose with no liability to any third party". (My emphasis). It then goes on to say "Neither the whole or any part of this report or reference to it may be included in any published document, circular or statement, or reproduced in any other way without our written approval as to form and context" which is fairly standard verbiage, only possibly more of an issue this time because of the involvement of the UK Arm of a large international brewer. If the above is correct it would undermine the "... adequate insurance cover should anything go wrong". It looks to me like the above response was provided by the borrower, I was really looking for ablrate's thoughts on the matter.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jan 14, 2017 16:45:54 GMT
Afternoon. I found myself passing by this pub today. I was driving past, so the below is views from a 15 second impression whilst I waited for the traffic lights to change as I drove through the town.
Sunny Saturday early afternoon. Busy town centre location with lots of footfall. People coming and going from the pub, but it looked from what I good see quite quiet.
If I get a chance I will look to do a more in depth visit.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jan 15, 2017 6:26:02 GMT
Afternoon. I found myself passing by this pub today. I was driving past, so the below is views from a 15 second impression whilst I waited for the traffic lights to change as I drove through the town. Sunny Saturday early afternoon. Busy town centre location with lots of footfall. People coming and going from the pub, but it looked from what I good see quite quiet. If I get a chance I will look to do a more in depth visit. Careful if you're driving but a sampling of the real ales is key
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