crazi
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Post by crazi on Aug 16, 2018 9:53:18 GMT
Companies can indemnify themselves all they wish but they are still liable legally in most cases if you can prove any sort of professional neglect. A 100% loss would go a long way in proving that.
All it takes is for FS to stand up for their lenders and hold the valuer to account. The valuer is seemingly RICS registered so their membership is also at risk. RICS obviously means very little and they obviously don't take much action against their members either but having RICS membership is a necessity in the arena.
So challenge it/them FS! Protect your Lenders!
If FS do nothing I will be considering selling out all holdings and a few others I know will be doing the same.
I have asked FS what they will be doing about it and have gotten the usual vague answer but as things come to a head on this loan I hope myself and ALL lenders put the pressure on!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 16, 2018 10:44:39 GMT
I don't want to sound negative but I don't think FS are the slightest bit concerned about suing the valuer even if they wanted to. As to whether they should is a different albeit moral question. As I have said earlier I don't think FS understand the property market and also it is a fact that I have come across surveyors, estate agents and solicitors who are the best of golfing friends ....
Below is from a legal site that specialises in this matter
I can't find the original valuation - assuming there was one! FS seem to have taken the mid- estimate of the esate agents' suggested price. If there was a surveyor he could rightly argue this was a fire-sale and that not all the work was finished (I think) and that it was not his fault a huge amount needed spending in order to re-do the bodged work. Also this would have been know locally as a "lemon" once FS defaulted the loan.
Despite it being disputed I can assure you that as somebody who deals in distressed property sales I often buy property at 50-70% of asking price (in the frozen North). As to what I think of valuers I could not possibly post on this forum!
I agree all loan holders in this one have been let down very badly by FS but whether they can be sued for negligence over this loan for not having it properly valued etc we will have to leave to our legal friends - to be honest I think a case against Whitehaven etc is more likely to succeed but I am not a legal chap.
I did flag this one up as one I was concerned about - I was not trying to do anybody or any company down but just a friendly comment as I don't like to see investors or anybody else shafted...sorry but I think there is zero chance of suing the valuer and that is assuming there was one!
Just my opinion and yes I really feel for the holders in this loan and praise the day I ditched my holding in it.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 16, 2018 11:39:04 GMT
There is a clear cut and I'd have thought 90+% chance of winning against a grossly negligent Valuer on Lendy.
When T** C****t valuation was commissioned, the Valuer was clearly instructed to comment in particular on Planning Permissions.
The Valuer duly ignored this completely and made NO mention whatsoever of the myriad Planning Permission "situations", and Lendy's "rigorous in-house DD" also duly passed the VR!
To my feeble and non legal mind this is hugely winnable grounds for Gross Negligence claims against both The Valuer and Lendy. I am led to believe however that the loss needs to be crystalised first.
Unfortunately.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2018 12:01:32 GMT
I don't see how the lenders would have a claim on the valuer. Presumably the valuer has a contract with Lendy and Lendy has a contract with the lenders. The lenders can only pursue Lendy, for its management of the valuation process. Gross negligence is a tough test - like failing to do what no reasonable person would fail to do. Lendy would have a simpler task in holding the valuer to account against professional standards, but if successful the valuer would only be liable for the loss to Lendy caused by the specific failures in the valuation, in this case the failure to take account of planning permission as instructed. It's not the case that you have to find just one error for the valuer to be liable for the whole loss, especially losses of third parties. There could be a link between the fireproof position of valuers in p2p and the optimistic valuations.
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rs
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Post by rs on Aug 16, 2018 15:07:17 GMT
12% of capital paid to lenders just now. Loss can only be 89% now. What happened to the legal case that the borrower was going to win to settle the FS loan!
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Aug 16, 2018 15:15:40 GMT
And what's happened to the accrued interest relating to the repaid 12%? I know it's academic since we won't be getting any of it, but shouldn't it be shown somewhere? I'm severely out of date with all my p2p stuff and was prompted by chance to look at this and notice the accrued interest on those split loan parts had disappeared into a black hole when they were paid; perhaps it's a new norm I've missed by being absent.
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rs
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Post by rs on Aug 16, 2018 15:21:08 GMT
And what's happened to the accrued interest relating to the repaid 12%? I know it's academic since we won't be getting any of it, but shouldn't it be shown somewhere? I'm severely out of date with all my p2p stuff and was prompted by chance to look at this and notice the accrued interest on those split loan parts had disappeared into a black hole when they were paid; perhaps it's a new norm I've missed by being absent. Any Interest will only be paid to lenders after all capital is paid. FS have not finished with the secured assets or borrower yet.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Aug 16, 2018 15:31:59 GMT
And what's happened to the accrued interest relating to the repaid 12%? I know it's academic since we won't be getting any of it, but shouldn't it be shown somewhere? I'm severely out of date with all my p2p stuff and was prompted by chance to look at this and notice the accrued interest on those split loan parts had disappeared into a black hole when they were paid; perhaps it's a new norm I've missed by being absent. Any Interest will only be paid to lenders after all capital is paid. FS have not finished with the secured assets or borrower yet. Yes, of course. I didn't make myself clear. The loan parts were split into 88% and 12%, each with their respective accured interest. The capital for the 12% parts was repaid, and those parts marked as paid and closed, but the accrued interest has disappeared with them.
Edit: and before some wise spark asks if I'm sure it hasn't been added into the accrued interest for the 88% parts, yes I am
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micky
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Post by micky on Aug 16, 2018 16:52:12 GMT
2nd loan- now this hurts- my sympathy to all who invested-
46 mins ago-
BTL2 in Knaresborough has now been sold, the proceeds of which have been paid to the holders of the first facility, which ranks ahead of this loan.
Although we are continuing to work towards further recovery it is clear that there will be a shortfall on the first facility, leaving no funds to repay this supplemental loan. As the borrower is in bankruptcy, no significant additional recovery is foreseen.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 16, 2018 18:16:59 GMT
Well this is jolly salad ...sorry FS but when I get time I am going to sit down and work out exactly what has happened here as I find the current explantion and loan reclassification a load of smoke and mirrors. Granted I am in this game but this one was so ridiculous I don't think my experience is relevant.
I had this one down as a 100% loss - premier league and that was because I thought the first charge holder had security over the BTL properties (my misunderstanding) However looks like my prediction of Premier League is on the ball...
I read to mean this is our (YOUR) first (I think) 100% loss. Boy this spin nonsense annoys me!
How on earth can a lender lose 100% in a property investment! Wonder how much the original applicant actually lost?
Well I only hope for the sake of my fellow lenders (and my wallet) my other predictions aren't so accurate...
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Post by brightspark on Aug 16, 2018 19:48:17 GMT
Presumably FS made something on the deal so it was not a 100% loss for them - on the contrary i would imagine it was quite a nice little earner?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 16, 2018 19:52:40 GMT
fair point - should have said "How on earth can a lender lose 100% of lender funds " in a property investment!
I agree I doubt if they lost 100% but this farce has really hit their reputation which was not exactly on cloud 9 before this one - there will be several others not least these damn speedboats we keep asking about...
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Post by banffy on Aug 16, 2018 23:48:44 GMT
Yet another shocker just over £100 back just over 1.3K lost in this loan. Next loan £11K in the Powerboat I need a strong Whisky as I can see these lying Baxxxxxs ready to come out with another excuse I'm done with now. These people are taking the Pixx out of us all. I'm like Mel Gibson right now I would like to kick them all down that hill after a good long stare then it's Slxx Throat job!
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Post by eascogo on Aug 17, 2018 12:13:06 GMT
Yet another shocker just over £100 back just over 1.3K lost in this loan. Next loan £11K in the Powerboat I need a strong Whisky as I can see these lying Baxxxxxs ready to come out with another excuse I'm done with now. These people are taking the Pixx out of us all. I'm like Mel Gibson right now I would like to kick them all down that hill after a good long stare then it's Slxx Throat job! Commiseration here, 4k down the drain for me. Also exposed to Rishton and Powerboat but to a lesser extent. FS not in my good book.
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archie
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Post by archie on Aug 17, 2018 13:21:50 GMT
I think they've messed this right up. These repayments should show as capital recovered from defaulted loans in this tax year. Instead they've reduced the capital loss on the 16/17 tax statement so it's now showing different totals.
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