adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 10, 2017 12:22:02 GMT
have read the DD post - this development looks a right dog's breakfast to me and the chance of ANY money being returned to FS looks about zero to me...does anybody know what the building issues were as I am very interested to know
I thank you
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Post by doonio on Dec 2, 2017 11:27:02 GMT
Any news in this black hole loan?
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Dec 2, 2017 12:40:02 GMT
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 2, 2017 18:14:31 GMT
I note there is a possibilty of a claim against the original contractor. I am in this business so I would say
1) actually getting ANY money may well be a nightmare and legal action etc to get it won't be cheap - I pay over £1,000 per day for a structural engineer alone and that is not London prices...
2) don't expect any payment by return of post!
3) originally we were told there was £600K of work to do so has this been spent and if so will be all be claimed by the first charge holder? £600K is going to make an almighty impact on the bottom line...
4) easy to say but FS should not have got into this situation as it is a complete and expensive headache all round
5) however much did this work cost to rectify- "unbodging" work can be extremely expensive and far more than the original cost. Depending upon the insurance then the entire renewal cost may not be recoverable and euro to a cent it will be disputed!
Anybody offering long odds that recovery will be above 0% on this one?
I thank you.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 4, 2017 20:18:02 GMT
Any news in this black hole loan? I've been keeping my eye on zoopla but as yet no obvious signs that marketing of the two properties has commenced. One small step forward is that the land registry records show the original freehold title for number nn has been split with additional new placeholder records for numbers nnA and nnB. Now call me old fashioned but a house number ending in A or B in London implies a flat conversion, not a multi million pound "mansion". OK, the new owners will likely register house names pdq, but the A / B suffix wll come up on credit searches etc and might not create the right impression when you're apply for golf club membership for example. Thinking aloud - if nnA and nnB are sold as leasehold, then the administrators will likely be able to sell the freehold for something as well. (Given the shared drive, leasehold is probably the easier model to adopt, even if new leasehold houses are to banned in due course).
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Dec 4, 2017 20:44:27 GMT
Found a website that sets out the process for officially naming a house.
They suggest a good name for many a house might be Cobwebs.
Currently Owned By Woolwich Equitable Building Society.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 13, 2017 14:51:53 GMT
Now listed on Zoopla / Primelocation by a reasonably well regarded west London estate agency at a bit under £3m each ... but with an artists impression mockup of the outside. No internal photos, but a floor plan is provided.
Direct links are on DD Central.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 13, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
thanks for the link above - as stated only a CGI rather than a proper photograph but what do you expect for £3m smackers?
There is still the issue of the £600K expense to finish these properties etc If they sell at 90% of asking that will yield about £5.4m Gross. As at start of 2017 the total owing (prior to the FS 3rd charge) was £4.8m. So if we add £600K that gives us £5.4m. So where are all the legal expenses interest of about £1m etc going to come from. I wager the second charge holder which will leave exactly zero for FS! I may have got my maths wrong but this is very worrying whichever way you look at it....
This valuation has gone from £7.6m to £5.9m asking price so that is an instant £1.7m devaluation!
I have just read the administrators report - the cost of completion before charges was £979,478 so that makes about £5.8m spent on properties worth about £5.9m being in this business I am not surprised - this is a very hard game and it is not like on the Telly! It is not easy to beat the market. Shame about the interest and other expenses which I don't think will be covered by the £100K gross profit!
I left FC as I though they were bad with property but after Suffolk being re-listed today I am very disappointed with FS as they seem worse than FC - I never thought I would say that.
I thank you
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james21
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Post by james21 on Dec 15, 2017 10:29:38 GMT
I got into this one early in my investment experience with FS, clearly I did not read the details as I would not now ever get into a 3rd charge loan, I rarely get into 2nd charge now. So more fool me. I doubt that even without the setbacks it would have been touch and go that the whole loan was repaid with the interest on the sale of the houses. My assessment of the position now is that a recovery of about between zero 10% is about where it will end up
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 16, 2017 12:24:58 GMT
Just had another quick look at this one - I note there seem to have been 3 charges issued in December 2014. Well if the rate is 20% on £4.8m (not sure if the 4.8m referred to is all charges but if we take 100%) then that is £0.96m per year x 3 = £2.9m in simple interest alone - Gordon Bennett!
And we may well have another 6 months before these houses are sold....
I am not saying that is what the final interest will be but what I am saying it looks as if the final figure will not be pretty...
Looks to me as if this project was behind schedule and they ran out of money only to be funded by FS as nobody else would touch them with the smutty stick....
FS wrote in January
well I don't agree if we add the existing charges' interest plus the £900K spent on completion then all I can see is a MASSIVE loss with the second charge holder taking a mega hit and any FS recovery about as likely Kim Jong-un marrying Melania Trump.
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Post by doonio on Dec 16, 2017 13:50:15 GMT
Now listed on Zoopla / Primelocation by a reasonably well regarded west London estate agency at a bit under £3m each ... but with an artists impression mockup of the outside. No internal photos, but a floor plan is provided. Direct links are on DD Central. Thanks for information, I am in the 3rd legal charge, so I already said bye bye to my money, good lessen..no idea how I could overlooked that important fact. Lets see what the 2018 will bring us here :-D
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james21
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Post by james21 on Dec 16, 2017 17:52:54 GMT
As I already mentioned I expect recovery to be no better than 10% and probably zero and no interest. The only tiny benefit is the loss can be put against other interest gained for income tax purposes so for example a £1k loss will come down by 20% less in income tax to a £800 loss assuming you are a basic rate tax payer
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 28, 2017 12:19:18 GMT
Methinks not!
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I would say probably less!
The final standard looks very high to me but I wonder if it was worth all the expense of the marble etc - maybe on a £10m house in Mayfair? Looking at the local market these houses seem over-priced to me at £3m and will realise £2.5m at best and under £2m at worst. There are other 5 bedroomed houses for £1.5m... Considering the first charge is for £4.8m, before e.g. 2 years interest at 10% = best part of £1m ,this one is not looking good!
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Post by routlep on Dec 28, 2017 18:56:07 GMT
I expect this is wishful thinking but maybe the bank has got most of its interest monthly already - or has this borrower had its interest suspended to all lenders for some time?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Dec 29, 2017 9:57:57 GMT
forgot to say - this was also just under £1m spent on finishing these houses. If my maths are correct then there could be a shortfall in the region of £2m - Gordon Bennett!
As I said 2018 will be an interesting year and indicate better the actual FS returns. Anybody who has more than one of these problematic property, speedboat, turbine loans etc will be on course for a thumping loss - just 10% of loans that go so badly wrong in a portfolio will drastically reduce the return to a very low figure. If fact if anybody is solely invested in 5 of the worse performers the return could easily be worse than minus 50%!
Happy New Year!
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