SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 30, 2017 23:45:22 GMT
1) Announce new loan by email the day before launch, as now, but instead ask lenders to make their "pre-bids" on the website by 4pm of launch day.
2) Pre-bidding closes at 4pm and the loan is allocated "bottom up". If there is anything left after all pre-bids have been filled (unlikely!) then the rest goes on general sale (FFF)
3) Where sufficient funds are available in the account to pay for the allocation in full, the loan part is purchased automatically. Otherwise, lender receives an email requesting that funds be added (or other existing loanparts sold) by deadline of 4pm next day to allow the purchase to be completed.
4) Any parts that remain unpurchased by 4pm the following day are released for general purchase (FFF but with a bid limit of, say, 25% of the maximum allocation)
That way, the timescales for filling a new loan should be pretty much the same as now (at least, where the bid limit lasts 24 hours)
Leave the SM the way it is now, and likewise renewals.
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greatmarko
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Post by greatmarko on Jan 31, 2017 1:30:55 GMT
Look at the use of bots on site - and stop/reduce their effectiveness ...but please, please, please don't go down the SS route of implementing Captcha - this only serves to frustrate investors!!!
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jan 31, 2017 1:33:20 GMT
For what it's worth my solution would be to have a smaller allocation and a shorter window until you can rebid, say 4 hours, instead of 24 hours.
As an example the Wandworth's loan would have been allocated at 4pm with say a max bid of £500. Lenders know that they have 4 hours to bid and there would be enough available. The bid window would reopen at 20:00 for those that want another £500. There are lots of lenders who would not want to lend more than £500 so the system would be able to cope. it also means those who are unavailable at 4pm get to bid.
The software has already been written for this solution, it's just the time slot age that needs changing.
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greatmarko
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Post by greatmarko on Jan 31, 2017 1:47:30 GMT
I'm surprised no-one has floated this idea yet; but how about simply having random "go live" times for loans, rather than the fixed rigid 4pm time? i.e. send an email to investors a day or so before each new loan goes live, state that it will be going live "within the next 48 hours", and then have the system make them go live at random times.
This solves the server performance issues at 4pm, it also solves the issue of people not being able to invest at 4pm because they're at work or otherwise busy at 4pm.
Having loans going live at random, unannounced, times throughout the day/night would make it a more level and fairer playing field, and would also make Live Loans Linger Longer! (try saying that 5 times fast!)
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am
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Post by am on Jan 31, 2017 2:58:21 GMT
I'm surprised no-one has floated this idea yet; but how about simply having random "go live" times for loans, rather than the fixed rigid 4pm time? i.e. send an email to investors a day or so before each new loan goes live, state that it will be going live "within the next 48 hours", and then have the system make them go live at random times. This solves the server performance issues at 4pm, it also solves the issue of people not being able to invest at 4pm because they're at work or otherwise busy at 4pm. Having loans going live at random, unannounced, times throughout the day/night would make it a more level and fairer playing field, and would also make Live Loans Linger Longer! (try saying that 5 times fast!) Varying the loan release time is a decent idea, but having unannounced release times probably isn't. That would advantage people with browser automation (who are alerted when the loan goes live) and bots (which automatically invest immediately the loan goes live). See FC, where there's a cottage industry of bot operators with deep pockets snaffling large proportions of the higher rate loans, and reselling them at a profit on the secondary market, and regular complaints both here and on the in-house board about FC's supine acceptance of this. (Though the selling at a profit isn't possible at MT as the secondary market is par only.)
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on Jan 31, 2017 3:11:07 GMT
Another alternative could be to divide any new loan amount by the total number of investors and make that figure the maximum bid amount for the first 24 hours. It would at least allow each investor some time to get some of the loan and keep the FFF brigade happy 24 hours later as they could start their fun and games at 4pm the next day on any unallocated funds.
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freddy
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Post by freddy on Jan 31, 2017 4:07:09 GMT
I would favour a 2 phased prefund with limit approach. Phase 1. 24hr notice of loan go live or as you do now state loan to go live at 4pm on given date. Set max bid limit. Investors ensure finds in account and commit to amount wishing to invest (up to max limit).
loan goes live at stated time with no need for investors to all log on at same time.
Phase 2. Remaining amount divided between those who place max allowed bids to identify further max bid amount. Only offered to those investors who placed max bids in Phase 1. 24. Hour notice, investors commit to their phase 2 investment and fund accounts accordingly.
any remainder to be placed on open market.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jan 31, 2017 6:45:06 GMT
I implore you not to change the system into an SS type of system where people can be running multiple accounts in the names of their children and dogs and Partners and set them all to prefund, go to sleep and snatch masses of the allocation and game the system to others disadvantage. you will also then get automated bots being set up by crafty people designing these dodgy script to fiddle the system and take over just like what happened on SS and ruined it for the man in the street. I don't see how the current system makes it any harder for people to operate multiple accounts, given we all seem to be in favour of limits that make the loans available for a few hours at least. There really isn't any difference between someone to logging in with account A, placing a bid, then logging in with account B etc either before the loan goes live in the case of prefunding, or after the loan goes live in the current system. Assuming, of course, the loan is available for several minutes and the server can handle the activity. So the only change to the bidding system that would disadvantage those operating more than one account (if any exist) would be to set limits high enough that popular loans will fill in seconds. That way there would not be enough time to place a bid from more than one account. But at the same time you are favouring those with the fastest internet connections and those who can get a technological advantage over others with bots. Neither the current system, nor any of the proposed pre-funding systems suffer those problems. You're never going to stop people from operating accounts in the name of others with their permission and cooperation. However, MT could make this a bit harder by verifying the registered bank account belongs to the individual named on the MT account before the first withdrawal to said bank account is permitted. On the subject of automated bots, prefunding is one of the solutions to that problem, if that is indeed a problem. What creates the problem is a system where humans struggle to make bids quickly enough on their own. No bot can get an advantage if bids are placed in advance and the MT server allocates the parts based on those advanced bids. Those who are really concerned about bots would favour an AC-like system of prefunding for both primary and secondary markets, which would make the use of bots completely redundant.
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Post by bonfemme on Jan 31, 2017 7:21:31 GMT
I implore you not to change the system into an SS type of system where people can be running multiple accounts in the names of their children and dogs and Partners and set them all to prefund, go to sleep and snatch masses of the allocation and game the system to others disadvantage. I don't see how the current system makes it any harder for people to operate multiple accounts, given we all seem to be in favour of limits that make the loans available for a few hours at least. It is no real hardship for someone to log in with account A, place a bid, then log in with account B etc if the loan is available for several minutes and the server can handle the frenzy. So the only solution would be to set limits high enough that popular loans will fill in seconds so that those multiple account holders (if any exist) do not have time to place a bid from more than one account. But at the same time you are favouring those with the fastest internet connections and those who can get a technological advantage over others with bots. Neither the current system, nor any of the proposed pre-funding systems suffer this problem. You're never going to stop people from operating accounts in the name of others with their permission and cooperation. However, MT could make this a bit harder by verifying the registered bank account belongs to the individual named on the MT account before the first withdrawal to said bank account is permitted. On the subject of automated bots, prefunding is one of the solutions to that problem, if that is indeed a problem. What creates the problem is a system like the one we currently have. No bot can get an advantage if bids are placed in advance and the MT server allocates the parts based on those advanced bids. Those who are really concerned about bots would favour an AC-like system of prefunding for both primary and secondary markets, which would make the use of bots completely redundant. Totally agree with everything you say. The current 4pm feeding frenzy needs to end.
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Post by jackpease on Jan 31, 2017 7:22:11 GMT
Prefund, bottom up allocation, end of following working day to replenish balance - works well for SS so keep it simple.
Having to be there at 4pm for me is a huge problem
Jack P
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Jan 31, 2017 7:54:50 GMT
the alternative view is that why change the system when it is currently successful? Loans filling rapidly could be considered as a postive sign. I experienced the AC shrapnelator and the SS allocation system. IMHO MT is better off without that type of thing.
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archie
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Post by archie on Jan 31, 2017 7:55:15 GMT
I much prefer the current system even with IT issues. One of the reasons this loan was so popular is the lack of decent rates on the other sites. With a bid limit you know exactly how much you can get and therefore how much you have available to spend on the sm. The 4pm start time means sm is lively in the run up to launch so good time to buy. Prefunding just reduces allocations. Note : I only run one account, no bots.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 31, 2017 8:35:00 GMT
Before we decide on a solution, perhaps we should revisit what we are trying to achieve, since there is some disagreement there? In my view we are trying to 'smear out' the 4pm rush over some period of hours or days, while achieving a 'fair' allocation of loans among lenders. My definition of 'fair' is 'equal shares for all' (even spouses, but maybe not 'multiple accounts for on individual'). Other views seem to be much as they were on SS .. i.e. if someone has 10x the cash available they should get 10x as much of the loan, or if someone can be available at 4pm, or have a faster internet connection, or automation skills, or whatever, they should be similarly advantaged or handicapped.
The current system is NOT 'fair', unless Ed gets the maximum bid size exactly right (which he doesn't), and even then requires you to be there during a 24 hour period. Setting it as 'amount of loan / number of investors' would guarantee everyone a small slice (for the duration of the lockout), but that's going too far the other way, unless the lockout is rather less than 24 hours (which gets back to cramming X bids into a short time, which doesn't scale well as X increases).
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Post by penguin on Jan 31, 2017 8:39:57 GMT
Upgrade the server, reduce the bid sizes, and, most importantly, move the time to outside of the working day (say 8pm as previously suggested). Going the SS route will only attract all the dubious individuals who lurk there - in my view the FCA will wise up to all the SS shinanigans at some point (KYC, anyone?) and you don't want to be caught in the firing line
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bababill
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Post by bababill on Jan 31, 2017 8:47:27 GMT
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