elsee
Member of DD Central
Retired:D
Posts: 196
Likes: 110
Member is Online
|
Post by elsee on Jan 31, 2017 14:44:01 GMT
I like the idea of "bidding" when we get the 24hr email. Perhaps 50% could be available for a max allocation which we could opt into/out of up to the max and fund before 4pm. Then the remainder can go live at 4pm for the FFF frenzy along with any of the 50% "bid" not funded. That should please everyone I hope. Small investors would get a bite, larger ones would have a second chance and MT would get their money the same time as usual. The allocation would probably have to be 50%/total registered investors so not a huge amount admittedly.
I am always around at 4pm but rarely get anything at all - the bid limits are so high it's all gone in a flash.
I like cooling_dude's suggestion, mine is just a variation of it as his didn't seem to go down well with some users - can't think why as it means everyone gets a % of what they want.
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Jan 31, 2017 14:51:12 GMT
As the amount available per lender drops it's natural to want to try and up your own allocation, it's a feed back loop though. Hence my thought of (as far as pos) to increase loan size in line with demand. We're behind the curve which is the root of the problem. It's natural to want to increase bid size but using bottom up allocation reduces the value of that. The value isn't eliminated because people who have relatively low amounts to invest could still start high - for them - and sell to diversify later. I don't mind that at the smaller amounts because it's helping those with least resources, a social good. If someone with a sensible diversification level of £10 per loan wants to start out at £100 to get invested, quickly, I'm happy. A person trying it at 100 and 1000 is likely just to not get the 1000 but still get some speed up.
|
|
|
Post by rock500 on Jan 31, 2017 15:36:05 GMT
I am sure Moneything said earlier in the thread you will need to have your account funded, not 24 hours to fund it after allocation. Unless i am getting confused You're confused, the idea is to use a similar pre-fund method to SS, only you bid for what you want before the loan goes live and once you know how much you've been allocated, refund your account by the deadline to secure your amount before the loan goes live, failing receipt of your payment, the unsold parts go onto the SM.... Ah ok so i would have time to fund the account with cash or selling loans on SM, after i know what value of loan i have been allocated
|
|
jj
Member of DD Central
Jolly Jammy
Posts: 320
Likes: 358
|
Post by jj on Jan 31, 2017 16:49:59 GMT
Some people should be carefull what they wish for if they want a AC style solution.
Before long you'll be placing a £1000.00 request and getting only £50.00.
|
|
james
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 955
|
Post by james on Jan 31, 2017 17:09:16 GMT
As opposed to a £20 request and getting nothing because you weren't there at 4PM? Getting everything you want instead of nothing would seem like a welcome improvement.
Yes, giving everyone the opportunity will reduce the potential for those who can exploit the 4PM timing to increase what they can get but that's not the sort of thing I want to see encouraged vs giving everyone the opportunity to participate.
|
|
jj
Member of DD Central
Jolly Jammy
Posts: 320
Likes: 358
|
Post by jj on Jan 31, 2017 17:22:21 GMT
I am not the Moral police around here all I am saying is the nature of MT will completely change. Yes more people will get a smaller slice of the cake and probably lead to even more people joining MT. I don't know what MT's plans are regarding the future direction of company.
What I would like to see is two smaller limits. One about 12 noon till 5pm then 5pm till 12 noon next day. I think this would be easier to implement for Ed.
|
|
derbyfella
Member of DD Central
Posts: 70
Likes: 45
|
Post by derbyfella on Jan 31, 2017 18:20:19 GMT
Ive skimmed this thread as im not a big reader of this board....for time reasons if for no other. So some of the terms are a little alien for me ie bottom up funding etc
Anyway as has been said no one system is going to please everyone. Personally I don't really like the current way of doing things....but I don't want bots or pre funding or other ways of cheating the system. Everyone should get a fair chance to fund...
This is probably a stupid idea but....
How about splitting the times of the loan offer
so for example
a loan comes in and is split into three(for example) tranches (for purpose of availability only). An email goes out to the investors with an opt in or opt out on that loan. then three (for example) time slots are made available with a maximum number of investors in each slot, you can only choose one slot, one that suits you best. From that, the maximum bid limit is introduced across all the tranches.
ANy funding that isn't taken up in those slots is made available for general consumption..
I can see issues with that obviously but...just an idea.
I don't like 4pm because its my work finish time...so pre-funding should really appeal to me....but it doesn't!
|
|
Grezza
Member of DD Central
Posts: 152
Likes: 101
|
Post by Grezza on Jan 31, 2017 18:31:29 GMT
Lots of good ideas coming forward, I'll go along with anything that helps all investors, old and new get a slice of the pie, even if that slice has to be a bit smaller. One comment re changing the start times and splitting of loans....this will not stop the fffff (fastest fingers first feeding frenzy), and will still put pressure on the current server problem.
|
|
|
Post by flobberchops on Jan 31, 2017 20:36:04 GMT
I would be in favour of prefunding and a bottom-up allocation, possibly with an initial limit. Anything that encourages diversification and gives little investors a chance is all right by me.
|
|
mason
Member of DD Central
Posts: 662
Likes: 640
|
Post by mason on Jan 31, 2017 20:48:38 GMT
I am not the Moral police around here all I am saying is the nature of MT will completely change. Yes more people will get a smaller slice of the cake and probably lead to even more people joining MT. I don't know what MT's plans are regarding the future direction of company. What I would like to see is two smaller limits. One about 12 noon till 5pm then 5pm till 12 noon next day. I think this would be easier to implement for Ed. It's certainly true that a desire to make a system that is as fair as possible is at odds with a desire to get as big a slice of the pie as possible. But if the aim of setting a limit is to make the loan last for sufficient length of time to allow those interested to place their bids, then if the limit is set correctly, it should result in a very similar allocation to prefunding. The only way people are going to initially get more than could be achieved through prefunding is if the limit is set too high (and the loan fills too quickly) or the limit is set too low (and it's fastest fingers first after 24 hours). One could argue that, in the case where Ed judges the limit perfectly, the statement: This loan will open for [funding] on Wednesday at 16:00 [with a limit of £XXX until] Thursday at XX:00is going to result in a very similar distribution of loan parts to: This loan will open for [prefunding] on Wednesday at 16:00 [and will be allocated on] Thursday at XX:00The difference is that instead of logging in to bid on the live loan, you have to log in and set a prefund amount. In both cases the length of time the [limit is in place/prefunding is open] is what dictates how easily people will be able to invest in the loan. The equivalent prefunding situation to MTAQ634 would have been to open this loan for prefunding at 4pm and allocate loan parts at 5pm. But that was due to a shortcoming of the use of limits that does not exists in the use of prefunding. The essential difference between setting limits on the primary market vs prefunding is that prefunding allows Ed and co greater accuracy in controlling how long we lenders have to log in and bid on the loan, which we shouldn't forget is the whole point of setting a limit in the first place.
|
|
robski
Member of DD Central
Posts: 772
Likes: 462
|
Post by robski on Jan 31, 2017 21:20:43 GMT
So I took some time to think rather than rushing to respond
I fall back to the position I took a few days ago in a diff thread.
Drop the % max to around 0.1%, and drop the time limit from 24 hours to 12 hours per "slice". 4am second tranch shouldn't be too much of a FFF imho Or even something like 0.05%-0.075% and 6 hour slices, repeating until the loan is full. If its 4pm start, that also frees up a 10pm second slot. Much lower % slices will take the heat out, its only because they sell fast that people rush. If you knew you were guaranteed to be able to get a slice in the first 6 hours you wouldn't need to rush.
I like and think the current system works pretty well, it needs some tinkering but its not far off. The worst situation is a new borrower it would appear, everyone wants a slice because it helps with diversification. Only last week a tranch loan took much longer to fill, because plenty probably already have most of what they want so are not stressed about getting some of the "old" borrower. The secondary market was much busier with the new borrower, clearly people dropping some other loans to take this one up, later tranches don't seem to show the same trend.
If your worried about bots then maybe throw in a quick check on some loans, tick the circle then press buy or similar. Something that's unique to MT, is not repeated, maybe not always there. If people think their bot will fail the won't use it imho
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 31, 2017 21:45:45 GMT
/mod hat off
But how does that differ from simple bottom up allocation (aka 'prefunding'), which has the advantage that it can allocate ALL the 0.1% slices (or as many as are possible) at zero hour .. and not just 0.1% slices, but £10 or even £1 slices, if you want to go that fine? You tell Ed how much you want (as does everyone else) and he then, armed with that knowledge (and a small spreadsheet) knows exactly what the maximum anyone can get is .. no further effort on their part, or on his (or do we really LIKE logging in every hour to buy the next .01%, until we have what we want? I mean fun is fun, but this is supposed to be investing). If someone asks for £100k, and nobody else wants any (having had 1-n days to think about whether they do or not) then give it to them, right then, don't make them buy it tuppence at a time over the next X hours or days. If 5000 people all want £1k, everyone gets 0.02%, right then (unless that is such a small amount we can't be bothered).
Right now Ed does run a 'send in a bid request and he'll make it for you (if possible)', but he doesn't have any visibility on the overall demand until 16:00 (unlike renewals, where he has a clear view of the rolled over money earlier the same day - and even a guesstimate weeks in advance, as soon as there is a tick-box in fact).
|
|
Grezza
Member of DD Central
Posts: 152
Likes: 101
|
Post by Grezza on Jan 31, 2017 22:03:44 GMT
Fastest finger first frantic feeding frenzy? Okay, ffffff !!!
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 8,980
Likes: 4,807
Member is Online
|
Post by adrianc on Jan 31, 2017 23:13:24 GMT
As opposed to a £20 request and getting nothing because you weren't there at 4PM? Or getting there at 4pm, only to find it's a £15 per person cap for the first 24hrs, but it's still gone in ten minutes.
|
|
starfished
Member of DD Central
Posts: 296
Likes: 216
|
Post by starfished on Jan 31, 2017 23:22:09 GMT
I like the current system, but mostly for the drama of it all but appreciate not sustainable. I was in the middle of a conversation 10 mins before go live and all I could think of, rather than listen attentively, was polite ways to end the conversation!
What system to move onto depends on what problem is trying to be solved by Ed and co. More people invested in a loan? Less load on the servers at a particular time?
Looking at the data Ed shared previously on Wandsworth, 264 people out 770 put in the maximum (£1,600), taking 65% of the loan available. Those putting in £1,000 and more, took 83% of the loan available.
If the aim is to manage load on server wouldn't a minimum bid, earlier in the day help minimise that? This would divert some of the traffic while keeping things close to how they are now. Obviously only for larger loans. For example:
From 12pm to 2pm, 25% of the loan reserved for those putting a minimum of £1000 (max £1,500) From 2pm to 4pm, 25% of the loan reserved for those putting a minimum of £500 (max £1,000) From 4pm the rest reserved for those putting a minimum of £0 (max £500) Anything left at 4am then goes on the Secondary Market
Using Wandsworth as an example, that would have suggested that c. 28% of the loan would have still been left at 5pm.
I say this with no agenda as I am very very small fry. Enough big hitters have said they don't want shrapnel and for MT to grow, I suspect they need the big hitters, as well as the rest of us happy. That means they still get involved in enough loans at the right amount to not lose interest with MT entirely.
*edited to add estimated share of wandsworth left
|
|