ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 18, 2017 16:47:52 GMT
And so we're back to the fundamental problem, which is a big imbalance between supply and demand. 'Fairness', or an even dividing of the cake among lenders unfortunately just involves all lenders getting peanuts until the balance improves. This seems to be the problem of capitalism. We should start promoting communism. The solution as I see it is to pool all the investment money and invest it as a lump sum. Do not worry for the money and the interest, I can take care of all of it for you.
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 18, 2017 16:48:30 GMT
Yeah, great. So the £20-ish chunks that appear on the SM, divided by 100s of interested lenders = pennies per lender. That may work for the primary offerings, but on the SM, no thanks. I'd rather sit that out completely than deal with the shrapnel. There's no reason it has to be like that. It could be allocated in £1 (or larger) bits. allocated randomly or by position in a queue.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 18, 2017 16:52:34 GMT
Recaptcha doesn't prevent someone with 24/7 availability, Fast PC/ low latency Internet, (or a slave farm in India) from continuing to soak up most of the offerings. If your opposition to captcha is because it annoys live users... well I challenge you to come up with a solution that prevents people with the above advantages from gaming the system WITHOUT annoying users. This is a tech-industry wide problem. Under the current system, someone with the free time to stare at the site all day (or, as you mention, the ability to delegate this) is going to have a big advantage, automation or not. We already have recaptcha on SS. We can see and touch its negative side to people who are not automated scripts. In the meantime there are still some loan parts which are hoovered up quicker than an eye can see. This too me tells me that recaptcha is totally inadequate independently of whether we can come up with another idea or not.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 18, 2017 16:53:32 GMT
Yeah, great. So the £20-ish chunks that appear on the SM, divided by 100s of interested lenders = pennies per lender. That may work for the primary offerings, but on the SM, no thanks. I'd rather sit that out completely than deal with the shrapnel. There's no reason it has to be like that. It could be allocated in £1 (or larger) bits. allocated randomly or by position in a queue. It is with ideas like these that I wish to have a thumb down facility on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 16:53:55 GMT
There's no reason it has to be like that. It could be allocated in £1 (or larger) bits. allocated randomly or by position in a queue. So still pennies per lender on average. Whoopee. And of course, handing an advantage to multi-account households in that scenario.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 16:57:29 GMT
We already have recaptcha on SS. We can see and touch its negative side to people who are not automated scripts. In the meantime there are still some loan parts which are hoovered up quicker than an eye can see. This too me tells me that recaptcha is totally inadequate independently of whether we can come up with another idea or not. I agree, captchas are imperfect. But thats the problem - there is no perfect solution to this problem! Its tech-industry-wide, and MT are far from the only company grappling with it. I'd argue that captcha is better than nothing at dealing with automation (or, its one of the least bad solutions that the tech industry has devised). And then valuable MT resources can be targeted at the REAL problem - a big imbalance between supply and demand.
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 18, 2017 17:07:41 GMT
There's no reason it has to be like that. It could be allocated in £1 (or larger) bits. allocated randomly or by position in a queue. It is with ideas like these that I wish to have a thumb down facility on this forum. You'd prefer captchas then? Or letting things continue as they are? Or something else?
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Feb 18, 2017 17:25:01 GMT
So thought I would post the one I mentioned above up
w***s £125.00 17/02/2017 13:22:28 r***i £25.00 17/02/2017 13:22:14 c***s £100.00 17/02/2017 13:22:12
This was listed as one chunk of £250 when I noticed it, I am the middle guy So it took 16 seconds after the fastest buyer and 14 seconds after me for the remainder to go That's either one very slow bot or the bot was on a lunchbreak at that time (which is what I was on btw when checking the SM), or just maybe there is no bot Or bot user has turned it off whilst frenzy dies down, gone to another site temporarily or they have gone somewhere away from the connected world. Would you, if you were "cheating the system" knowingly leave your bot running during, what is obviously an investigation period, in order for the platform to identify it and attempt neutralisation?
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 18, 2017 17:26:11 GMT
There's no reason it has to be like that. It could be allocated in £1 (or larger) bits. allocated randomly or by position in a queue. So still pennies per lender on average. Whoopee. It's always pennies per lender on average. Nothing we have discussed changes how much there is to go around - only the way it is distributed. There is no perfectly fair system - at least no system everyone would agree is perfectly fair. Your challenge was to come up with a system that would be more effective than a captcha.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:37:52 GMT
There is no perfectly fair system - at least no system everyone would agree is perfectly fair. We can agree on that at least. All you've done is arbitrarily shifted the 'unfair advantage' from one set of users to another. And requiring months of work to fundamentally rewrite MTs entire website with a totally new SM approach, rather than realistic quick fixes such as throttling, captchas etc
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jcb208
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Post by jcb208 on Feb 18, 2017 17:44:54 GMT
I know for sure A***3 had a bot in operation on the SM last sunday as I was trying to use up my credit .I refreshed the page contstant and as soon as some thing was available it was gone in a flash and at the time this bot was picking up every loan available so gave up.Will try again once MT have a solution so the playing field is even.Anyway lets wait and see what bots are operating in tomorrow's 10 renewals as it should be easy to detect
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 18, 2017 17:49:14 GMT
There is no perfectly fair system - at least no system everyone would agree is perfectly fair. We can agree on that at least. All you've done is arbitrarily shifted the 'unfair advantage' from one set of users to another. I've done a little more than that. I've also decreased the magnitude of the 'unfair advantage' considerably. I quite like the throttling solution. I think it will be more effective than captchas - at least against the behaviour we've seen recently. One other solution (that admittedly falls into the fundamental rewrite category) is to remove the requirement for the secondary market to operate at par.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 17:56:45 GMT
I've done a little more than that. I've also decreased the magnitude of the 'unfair advantage' considerably. No more so than solutions that require far less effort. Essentially months of work for a solution that is still 'gameable' I'm still struggling to understand how throttling (ie 1 investment per X seconds) will prevent a bot from hoovering up all SM offerings that appear sporadically throughout the day, say one every couple of hours or so
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2017 18:00:12 GMT
tbh, at this point I'm willing to concede that we might be talking about different problems
It seems that primary offerings, renewals, and daily secondary market behaviour are all quite different issues the more I think about it
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Post by eascogo on Feb 18, 2017 18:07:17 GMT
So thought I would post the one I mentioned above up
w***s £125.00 17/02/2017 13:22:28 r***i £25.00 17/02/2017 13:22:14 c***s £100.00 17/02/2017 13:22:12
This was listed as one chunk of £250 when I noticed it, I am the middle guy So it took 16 seconds after the fastest buyer and 14 seconds after me for the remainder to go That's either one very slow bot or the bot was on a lunchbreak at that time (which is what I was on btw when checking the SM), or just maybe there is no bot Or bot user has turned it off whilst frenzy dies down, gone to another site temporarily or they have gone somewhere away from the connected world. Would you, if you were "cheating the system" knowingly leave your bot running during, what is obviously an investigation period, in order for the platform to identify it and attempt neutralisation? Bots or none, a high rate of successful bids ensures the bidder will run out of funds. Others can then step in.
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