sirius
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Post by sirius on Mar 16, 2017 11:23:57 GMT
Hi
I note that the valuation is shown as being 1.8m. However, reading the VR it clearly states that it is based on the 'proposed' PP being granted. Surely, this makes its true value, at this moment in time, in the region of £720k, making the real LTV 100%++?
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Post by runtley on Mar 16, 2017 11:58:20 GMT
I can see where they get the valuation from, I think so anyway. In the valuation report they say that plots (flat plots) with full planning in this area would sell for around £25,000 each so for 200 flats a £5,000,000 development value. Instead they have applied £9,000 per plot as a value taking into account the favourable pre-planning report, which I am inclined to believe as the property is in an important regeneration area. This would be how they arrive at the £1.8mio valuation.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 16, 2017 13:34:27 GMT
All these Loans (and not just on FS) with Valuations based on PP yet to be Granted and/or GDV just look like a huge minefield to me.
But then, I'm not a derring do Risktaker!
It would be helpful of course to know Current Value "as is", assuming PP is not granted, and whilst this is sometimes estimated it's still all too often left out.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 16, 2017 15:06:07 GMT
It would be helpful of course to know Current Value "as is", assuming PP is not granted, and whilst this is sometimes estimated it's still all too often left out. Often, 'as is' and 'assuming PP is not granted' are two different things. The former suggests that there's a chance PP would be granted, whereas the latter suggests that PP has been turned down, so the chance of getting PP -- if another attempt is made -- is likely to be reduced.
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bernard
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Post by bernard on Mar 16, 2017 22:00:34 GMT
Agreed. I think it is scandalous the way several of the P2Ps state false values on their websites (ie values assuming full planning granted before planning is actually approved), without seemingly asking for a current (with hope) valuation (or indeed a "not approved" valuation). Reeks of poor lending practice.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Mar 17, 2017 10:29:42 GMT
It's FAR worse than simple poor lending practice bernard, that's letting them off the hook, it's an out and out misrepresentation, to use the absolute mildest term I could think of. The P2Ps who do it know exactly what they're doing, and we know why they're doing it too.
Meanwhile, those Bastion Guardians Of The People, The FCA, stand around gormless and look on, and do nothing about it.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Mar 17, 2017 10:36:58 GMT
The borrower has just increased the sum they require from FS lenders by £23K
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 17, 2017 10:42:10 GMT
The borrower has just increased the sum they require from FS lenders by £23K I've just had two such emails this morning (Wirral and Wallasey) so I wonder whether a little office co**up error is reponsible for them.
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Post by runtley on Mar 17, 2017 12:37:42 GMT
To be fair, the valuation document on this one clearly spells out the basis of the valuation - it's not hidden and the rationale is spelled out and comparison made with other developments. Some fairly minor due diligence will demonstrate this. If I, as an investor/developer, was interested in buying the land now, I would look at just those factors and, believe me, if I thought I could buy it for anything like the value of this loan, I would snap it up. Taken as a valuation at this moment in time, which is what this is, it's perfectly fair and reasonable and any risk is adequately reflected in the yield on offer.
Nothing to see here, move along.........
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Post by mrclondon on Nov 19, 2017 10:35:53 GMT
FS are providing a number of loans to sister SPVs of this borrower (see thread Are all the Liverpool / Birkenhead loans linked? ) The first initial steps down the long road towards planning approval are now visible on the Wirral planning site (link on DD Central). A request for a "screening opinion" (Environmental Impact Assessment, EIA) was submitted at the end of last month. The document attached to the application states the borrower is intending to submit an outline planning application for proposed residential development of upto 70 units plus space for B1/B2/B8 use at ground floor (i.e. office/light industrial) on a rectangular site of 0.37 hectares. However, the VR Section 4 states "The subject property comprises a fairly level ‘L’ shaped plot of development land, [...] The site extends to approximately 1.0 Acres (0.4 Hectares). [...] The site has outline Planning Permission for redevelopment to provide a 22 storey tower block building comprising 200 flats of various size and configuration."So there is a discrepancy between the June 2016 VR of 200 flats, and an apparent current intention to submit outline planning for "upto 70 units plus ground floor B1/B2/B8 usage. " It strikes me the informal planning discussions over the last 18 months have forced these changes, which must have had an impact on GDV/residual value. The FS update at the end of September did say "Over the last six months, discussions with the planning council have been continuing, resulting in amendments to the original plans. As a result of these discussions, the final design has now been accepted in principle and a formal planning application will be submitted shortly.".
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 31, 2018 7:37:08 GMT
Development in The Wirral - Consolidation and renewal (2452378963), now up to 336 days and counting (the original loan kicked off a year earlier, back in Sept 2016 ) 26th April 18 update: " With apologies for the delay in providing an update - the borrower has a buyer who is carrying out due diligence before confirming the purchase. We have evidence of initial paperwork - if sale is likely to be delayed the borrower will pay the interest to renew the loan." 16th May 18 update: " Sale Process continues - we await exchange / completion dates. As previously advised if sale process is delayed the borrower will pay the interest to renew." Now, many moons later, we get ... 30th Aug 18 update: " Despite assurances, the buyer has still not moved to exchange and completion. In the meantime, the borrower anticipates that additional planning approval will be given in September - based upon which they have several interested parties. We have therefore agreed to a further extension to the loan, allowing time either for the original buyer to complete or for a more rapid sale once the additional planning approval is in place." Er, so what happened to the borrower's undertaking to pay renewal interest if the sale was delayed. Does 5+ months not constitute a "delay" in FS terms?
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Aug 31, 2018 7:59:43 GMT
'FS speak' requires a little madness to understand.
The inmates are clearly running the asylum here now.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Aug 31, 2018 9:40:19 GMT
Development in The Wirral - Consolidation and renewal (2452378963), now up to 336 days and counting (the original loan kicked off a year earlier, back in Sept 2016 ) 26th April 18 update: " With apologies for the delay in providing an update - the borrower has a buyer who is carrying out due diligence before confirming the purchase. We have evidence of initial paperwork - if sale is likely to be delayed the borrower will pay the interest to renew the loan." 16th May 18 update: " Sale Process continues - we await exchange / completion dates. As previously advised if sale process is delayed the borrower will pay the interest to renew." Now, many moons later, we get ... 30th Sept 18 update: " Despite assurances, the buyer has still not moved to exchange and completion. In the meantime, the borrower anticipates that additional planning approval will be given in September - based upon which they have several interested parties. We have therefore agreed to a further extension to the loan, allowing time either for the original buyer to complete or for a more rapid sale once the additional planning approval is in place." Er, so what happened to the borrower's undertaking to pay renewal interest if the sale was delayed. Does 5+ months not constitute a "delay" in FS terms? (For clarity in the long distant NPL future, I think you meant the 30th August update.) We we are all “interested parties”, in FS speak this “IP” means very little we now know. Why allow an extension? Is the borrower charged (enough) for these “unexpected” delays, (which we ALL expect), so why not do the EXPECTED thing, to renew then perhaps pay off early when/if the PP is granted & sale goes through. Seems a big disconnect in the business plan here.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Aug 31, 2018 9:42:22 GMT
Another loan at risk of failure as I see it. Clearly this borrower has cross funded his other loans with FS to keep all the balls in the air. Amended planning being applied for it appears so does that mean a new value and a supplementary loan or a new one at a higher level to pay off the interest and current loan, this option would give me the get out I want. Got a feeling this ones going to go on for a considerable time longer
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 2, 2018 18:24:23 GMT
Photos taken 11am yesterday (1st Sept) Plot is on the south side of W********* Lane, whilst the plot for W********* Lane, Wallasey is opposite on the north side. This I think can be classified as real property speculation, and is nowhere near the river. The dev site is behind the black hoardings on the left of the first photo
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