shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 30, 2017 14:40:46 GMT
There are a couple of newish platforms where my nose (oversensitive and bearing several scars) is telling me that they might be dodgy. Cutting corners and incompetent dodgy or actually dodgy dodgy (setting up loans for mates, hands in till, backhanders).
How much comfort can I derive from their having got the OK from the FCA to operate an ISA?
I (blush) dealt with a dodgy stockbroker once and actually the FCA (predecessors in fact) actually did cough up quite a decent sum in some sort of contrition. I did use a sort of claims handler who took erm 20%?, but they did know what to say.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 30, 2017 14:48:20 GMT
I've said it on here many times, FCA means FA, they're self serving.
Witness the numerous foul ups by the various "Regulatory Bodies" going back decades and decide for yourself if this latest "FCA Authorisation" means anything new.
It's always down to you.
(PS - Trust me, the crooks in "Financial Services" are Absolute Masters at getting round Regulations and hoodwinking "The Authorities")
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on May 2, 2017 16:47:40 GMT
I would like to ask platform reps and investors, old and new, how much trust is built up in individuals minds by a company gaining full authorisation from the FCA and the HMRC permission to run the IFISA?
Thinking from a company boss perspective having done lots of lobbying and probably having had the FCA representatives in the office goung over processes it would be relief and probably vindication that the company is well run.
I have no confidence that the FCA would have asked different classes of investor for their viewpoints. Maybe hnw lenders trotted out by platforms have been consulted?
Maybe its time the FCA asked for the little to small investors opinions before formulating legislation. After all, we tend to have a deeper understanding than someone who does not use a platform day to day.
What do people think?
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Post by mrclondon on May 2, 2017 17:52:20 GMT
I would like to ask platform reps and investors, old and new, how much trust is built up in individuals minds by a company gaining full authorisation from the FCA and the HMRC permission to run the IFISA? Thinking from a company boss perspective having done lots of lobbying and probably having had the FCA representatives in the office goung over processes it would be relief and probably vindication that the company is well run. I have no confidence that the FCA would have asked different classes of investor for their viewpoints. Maybe hnw lenders trotted out by platforms have been consulted? Maybe its time the FCA asked for the little to small investors opinions before formulating legislation. After all, we tend to have a deeper understanding than someone who does not use a platform day to day. What do people think? The FCA did make an open invite to forum members to contribute to their most recent Call for Input ( p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6224/fca-help ) and they thanked us for our contribution ( p2pindependentforum.com/post/140220/thread ) I think you need to turn your question on its head, and ask "Why are UK residents comfortable in investing through platforms that are not regulated by the FCA (i.e. those platforms domiciled in EU) ? " to understand the value attributable to FCA regulation of UK domiciled platforms. I was rather shot down in flames when I posted the following on a thread on ths EUR General board very recently, but I stand by what I wrote:
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Post by yorkshireman on May 2, 2017 18:26:42 GMT
It doesn't make one iota of a difference, Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax and RBS all had ISA’s.
Enough said.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 2, 2017 19:02:05 GMT
It doesn't make one iota of a difference, Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax and RBS all had ISA’s. Enough said. yes but nobody lost money. And they were all at it - do you remember HSBC were holding out and facing a shareholder revolt as a consequence. I sort of believe lessons have been learned, not that this is the same as the US Housing Crash
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Post by yorkshireman on May 2, 2017 19:36:15 GMT
It doesn't make one iota of a difference, Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax and RBS all had ISA’s. Enough said. yes but nobody lost money. And they were all at it - do you remember HSBC were holding out and facing a shareholder revolt as a consequence. I sort of believe lessons have been learned, not that this is the same as the US Housing Crash I agree, nobody lost money and I would like to think that lessons have been learned, however, the original question was “What confidence should we get from a platform having an ISA?” to which my answer is, it doesn’t make any difference IMHO.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on May 4, 2017 16:21:22 GMT
I do hope the government understand what the HMRC actions on IFISA manager status and FCA full authorisation means in terms of future bailouts using taxpayers money when people say they have trusted sites with these products/status. Thanks yorkshireman who comes down on neutral. What do other lenders think? |
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Post by spareafewcoppersguv on May 5, 2017 7:14:32 GMT
yes but nobody lost money. And they were all at it - do you remember HSBC were holding out and facing a shareholder revolt as a consequence. I sort of believe lessons have been learned, not that this is the same as the US Housing Crash I agree, nobody lost money and I would like to think that lessons have been learned, however, the original question was “What confidence should we get from a platform having an ISA?” to which my answer is, it doesn’t make any difference IMHO. Shareholders in now defunct banks would not agree that nobody lost money!
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Post by Jake Wombwell-Povey on May 5, 2017 8:04:38 GMT
I would like to ask platform reps and investors, old and new, how much trust is built up in individuals minds by a company gaining full authorisation from the FCA and the HMRC permission to run the IFISA? Thinking from a company boss perspective having done lots of lobbying and probably having had the FCA representatives in the office goung over processes it would be relief and probably vindication that the company is well run. I have no confidence that the FCA would have asked different classes of investor for their viewpoints. Maybe hnw lenders trotted out by platforms have been consulted? Maybe its time the FCA asked for the little to small investors opinions before formulating legislation. After all, we tend to have a deeper understanding than someone who does not use a platform day to day. What do people think? I'm a representative of Goji. We provide the technology, operations and administration to a number of platforms for the IFISA. These include Landbay, Downing, UK Bond Network, Assetz amongst others. I will keep this factual because I will not and cannot comment upon the quality of platforms as a whole - I will leave that to prospective investors. When it comes to the FCA authorisation, this is obviously a rigorous process and whilst it focuses on the regulatory business model and risks - the FCA does not issue authorisation as a guarantee a platform will be a success. When it comes to HMRC authorisation to offer an ISA a platform just needs to fill in a two page form. It is no guarantee of quality and HMRC relies on FCA authorisations to know who is 'eligible'. Then comes the hard bit. HMRC will undertake audits of ISA managers and it is only at this point will HMRC, should they see fit, take retrospective action against failings in ISA controls and these actions, typically fines, can impact the platform but also be an inconvenience to the investor as well. Goji has spent an inordinate amount of money building a bespoke operations and administration platform so we know the complexities to the IFISA - please bear in mind when selecting an IFISA provider that there is a lot of work in ensuring you comply with ALL of the ISA requirements - not just being able to show an investors a nice declaration on a webpage and store a National Insurance number.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on May 5, 2017 8:10:48 GMT
If you lose £500 capital on a default in an IFISA you've lost £500. Full stop.
If you've lost £500 capital on a standard P2P account you've lost £500, BUT you can set that aside against tax payable on other P2P interest income, so eventually you can get that £500 compensated for.
The confidence in the platform is the same either way based on whether the platform can select trustworthy and deserving borrowers reliably.
Just make sure your most trusted platform gets your IFISA business, or manage some extra risk on another by careful monitoring.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on May 5, 2017 8:28:32 GMT
Jake Wombwell-Povey when asked by a platform owner recently about the ifisa my advice was, in order to avoid lots of problems then buy your isa management from specialists like Goji'. There is evidence that the ifisa rules are not understood on at least 2 of the platforms I invest through. One is allowing churning at premiums and discounts to inflate the value of the ifisa and provide an enormous paper loss to claim against tax. Platform respinse to my email. No response. One platform is offering investors in a current loan to transfer into a new facility. Again, if transferring into an ISA possibly against ISA rules on selling to yourself. Like you suggest, the first a platform will knpw they have done wrong is when HMRC do detailed investigations should they so choose and issue fines that will cripple smaller platforms. oldgrumpy excellent clarrification for new investors on how high interest high risk investments can impact ISA holdings in a tax inefficient way.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on May 5, 2017 15:37:00 GMT
If you lose £500 capital on a default in an IFISA you've lost £500. Full stop. If you've lost £500 capital on a standard P2P account you've lost £500, BUT you can set that aside against tax payable on other P2P interest income, so eventually you can get that £500 compensated for. Out of the ISA though, you only get 20%, or 40% or 45% back though depending on your tax rate. Unless I've misunderstood something?
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shimself
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Post by shimself on May 6, 2017 10:53:02 GMT
Thanks Jake, that was the sort of thing I was driving at. Fit and Proper (competent and honest) was the thrust of my question. It started because there is one particular platform, which does offer ISA) where I like the offerings, but the platform itself seems iffy to me. I was wondering if it was reasonable to persuade myself that my instinct about the platform would be wrong if they ran an ISA. I think your answer is "somewhat"
I've been in p2p for over a decade now. I've been investing for longer that time, and oh boy the amount of sharks, villains and idiots selling a line you encounter in the money business is sickening (over 50% I think). Actual business with products and outlets and so on is infinitely more reliable.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on May 6, 2017 10:56:01 GMT
If you lose £500 capital on a default in an IFISA you've lost £500. Full stop. If you've lost £500 capital on a standard P2P account you've lost £500, BUT you can set that aside against tax payable on other P2P interest income, so eventually you can get that £500 compensated for. Out of the ISA though, you only get 20%, or 40% or 45% back though depending on your tax rate. Unless I've misunderstood something? Quite right - I should have made that clearer.
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