ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on May 12, 2019 19:35:21 GMT
'He who panics first, panics best'. Perhaps fundingsecure could give ABL a tinkle to ask what I mean by that. I would also have to ask ABL to understand what you mean by that, but that doesn't seem fair on ABL for me to take up their time that way! Could I ask you to explain please? Allow me to translate/guess, "These damn boats should have been sold over two years ago!" joI await to see if I am correct or not.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 12, 2019 19:47:49 GMT
Yours is a point of view shared by some others most probably with larger amounts at risk. I can well understand why and how the conclusion is reached. Everyone has their red line. For those so like-minded it is still in front of you. Mine has been passed. I no longer have faith in the veracity and credibility of the borrower. I believe a forced sale is required to recover at least something from this stalemate. FS would do well to bring matters to a head as the refusal to face up to the situation is damaging to their business. Perhaps if FS was to reveal what other factors are holding their hand I and others of a similar ilk could be swayed to think again. On the basis of what we have been told to date I can see no strength in the argument not to take recovery action now. It is time to cut losses and move on. Bingo! In their last update they stated that " We continue to believe that the best approach is to work with the borrower." So the simple question is: Why? Lenders may like the answer, they may not. But at least they'd know.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 12, 2019 19:49:37 GMT
I would also have to ask ABL to understand what you mean by that, but that doesn't seem fair on ABL for me to take up their time that way! Could I ask you to explain please? Allow me to translate/guess, "These damn boats should have been sold over two years ago!" jo I await to see if I am correct or not. See, I read it the other way. (But you're Australian, so might be forgiven for getting it the wrong way up )
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jo
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Post by jo on May 13, 2019 7:16:15 GMT
I would also have to ask ABL to understand what you mean by that, but that doesn't seem fair on ABL for me to take up their time that way! Could I ask you to explain please? Allow me to translate/guess, "These damn boats should have been sold over two years ago!" jo I await to see if I am correct or not. Bingo! Allowing this to drag on for so long crosses the event horizon and turns the outcome into a (probably) binary result. Kinda renders pointless lending with a LTV buffer.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 13, 2019 14:12:38 GMT
Allow me to translate/guess, "These damn boats should have been sold over two years ago!" jo I await to see if I am correct or not. Bingo! Allowing this to drag on for so long crosses the event horizon and turns the outcome into a (probably) binary result. Kinda renders pointless lending with a LTV buffer. OK. But ... Don't understand the reference to panicking? Nor how it relates to Abl?
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jo
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Post by jo on May 13, 2019 15:11:13 GMT
Bingo! Allowing this to drag on for so long crosses the event horizon and turns the outcome into a (probably) binary result. Kinda renders pointless lending with a LTV buffer. OK. But ... Don't understand the reference to panicking? Nor how it relates to Abl? It's just an old trading adage/idiom - meaning, in this context, if you have to liquidate, liquidate early.
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arby
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Post by arby on May 13, 2019 15:21:00 GMT
OK. But ... Don't understand the reference to panicking? Nor how it relates to Abl? It's just an old trading adage/idiom - meaning, in this context, if you have to liquidate, liquidate early. Yes, but the adage is only true if selling turns out to be the right course of action. Selling falling stocks can either be inspired or foolish. It's difficult to know which without the benefit of hindsight. I'll repeat that I'm not proposing any particular action, just stating that there are various courses possible.
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jo
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Post by jo on May 13, 2019 15:50:13 GMT
Again, this reduces results to a binary outcome: it's either good in hindsight, or it's bad in hindsight. LTV is meant to reduce the need to gamble. Like you, I'm not recommending any course of action at this point - though I sometimes wonder if fundingsecure wouldn't actually have been doing the borrowers a solid if they'd called time on this a looooong time ago.
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arby
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Post by arby on May 13, 2019 16:21:58 GMT
Again, this reduces results to a binary outcome: it's either good in hindsight, or it's bad in hindsight. LTV is meant to reduce the need to gamble. Like you, I'm not recommending any course of action at this point - though I sometimes wonder if fundingsecure wouldn't actually have been doing the borrowers a solid if they'd called time on this a looooong time ago. I agree in general, but not for this specific loan. For a unique asset with a limited market, such as these boats, liquidity is almost zero which means LTVs are almost meaningless if a fast sale is required. That should be recognised from the outset for anyone investing. For a 3-bed semi then of course LTV reduces the risk substantially.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 13, 2019 17:01:00 GMT
Remember too that the “Value” used by FS in the LTV calculation for these loans was not based on any independent market valuation but simply the borrower’s own List Price.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 13, 2019 18:51:10 GMT
OK. But ... Don't understand the reference to panicking? Nor how it relates to Abl? It's just an old trading adage/idiom - meaning, in this context, if you have to liquidate, liquidate early. Thanks. Not sure 'panic' has any place in trading - seems only appropriate if the facts are missing and unattainable. I certainly hope FS have the facts (as provided by the borrower and verified by FS where possible) when it comes to dealing with defaults. As to whether this specific loan should have been closed out by disposal many moons ago, I don't know as I don't have the same facts that FS have. That's the trade off I allow for agreeing to a platform running my investments. It's also why I have (up to) 500 times the amount in a stock I've selected to invest in, compared to the maximum I'll lend again any one loan. Control. (Usual caveats apply. Not defending FS. FS aren't faultless; eg: whitehaven, art. And so on ... etc, etc.)
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jo
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Post by jo on May 14, 2019 8:34:20 GMT
It's just an old trading adage/idiom - meaning, in this context, if you have to liquidate, liquidate early. Thanks. Not sure 'panic' has any place in trading - Huh? I only knew two emotions - panic or elation, and a great many of my contemporaries were fired for not panicking quick enough....that's probably why they eventually replaced us all with you robots.
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Doc
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Post by Doc on May 14, 2019 9:29:14 GMT
Thanks. Not sure 'panic' has any place in trading - Huh? I only knew two emotions - panic or elation, and a great many of my contemporaries were fired for not panicking quick enough....that's probably why they eventually replaced us all with you robots.
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jo
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Post by jo on May 14, 2019 10:47:46 GMT
Huh? I only knew two emotions - panic or elation, and a great many of my contemporaries were fired for not panicking quick enough....that's probably why they eventually replaced us all with you robots.
Thanks, I'll let the younger me know.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on May 14, 2019 11:13:20 GMT
I don't feel fear or greed. Just real disappointment at the very poor management of this loan. But I'm getting used to this from FS as it reflects their lack of loan management.
I don't understand why this loan is still "active" when it's so obviously a loan that isn't likely to even pay back the capital let alone the interest. I do wonder what FS know but feel they can't share as to why it's still "active". It's people like me who have committed money to enabling FS to fund this loan so why won't they share the reasons why this loan is still active? What exactly do FS know that they are not prepared to share with people like me - the investors.
It's time to call FS to account and I suggest everyone who has an interest (money) in this loan initiates a complaint and then perhaps we'll see why FS are so reluctant to give information to investors. If everyone with an interest in this loan makes a written complaint there could be some action - albeit about 2 years too late. But I won't hold my breath.
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