adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 6, 2019 19:56:11 GMT
Sorry made a typing error - I think 3 tranches as you say and a further supplementary loan coming in at no 4? I find the tranche description pretty damn confusing.
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Post by simert on Aug 6, 2019 20:01:48 GMT
Check loan 2444968958 for full details of the ranking and loans.
There are 3 loans.
Initial £575k
Then 8 tranches of development facility. £1.5m
Then a £370k supplemental loan.
All ranking one behind the other in the order above.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 7, 2019 7:17:58 GMT
As per MrC I made this 2 loans as above and then 2 supplementary loans of £370K-2444968958 + £140 8847655338 which states: This is a supplemental loan to enable the borrower to complete the development. In the event of a default, this would rank behind the prior loans.
Whatever I think they have both gone for a Burton so pretty academic!
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Aug 7, 2019 9:55:10 GMT
""This is a supplemental loan to enable the borrower to complete the development. In the event of a default, this would rank behind the original loan and development facility. However, due to the confirmed (increased) value on the updated report, we have been able to issue this facility and keep the LTV under 70%.
The client has an existing loan for £575,000 (2807104089.) that was used to part-finance the purchase of the property. In the event of a default that loan would have 1st priority.
The client has a development facility of £1,500,000 in place that was drawn down over 8 tranches (see below) that have second priority in the event of a default.
The first tranche for £156,250 was drawn down under loan ref 2183990265
The second tranche for £200,000 was drawn down under loan ref 2956062765
The third tranche for £239,000 was drawn down under loan ref 1025052107.
The fourth tranche for £210,000 was drawn down under loan ref 7682438798.
The fifth tranche for £220,000 was drawn down under loan ref 8981978557.
The sixth tranche for £100,000 was drawn down under loan ref 1146868742.
The seventh tranche for £150,000 was drawn down under loan ref 8160553061.
The eighth tranche for £224,750 was drawn down under loan ref 4202861543
The total borrowing across all the loans, including this loan, is £2,445,000 and gives an overall LTV of 69.9% "" ------------------------------------------------------------
Oh boy, there's going to be some screaming from the rafters over this one. I would be amazed if this sold for more than 1 million.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 7, 2019 10:15:52 GMT
sure is - I estimated this one at £800K - whatever I really can't see it being well over £2m!
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syalith
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Post by syalith on Aug 8, 2019 14:05:47 GMT
sure is - I estimated this one at £800K - whatever I really can't see it being well over £2m! On what basis are you predicting £800k given that the borrower bought it for £375k? Surely any supposed works carried out can be dismissed as cheap, shoddy, smoke-and-mirror type stuff done with the sole intent of fooling Fundingsecure into lending more money against the same security? We've been robbed. Investors in the 2807104089 loan may get a decent percentage of their capital back, perhaps 50%, but everyone else will get nothing. I'm no expert but that's the way I see it.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 8, 2019 14:25:29 GMT
I know a fair bit about this market and am currently installing a studio in one of my houses in Lancashire.
However I don't know the Liverpool market and have not seen the property - must visit when I get time. However similar properties seem to go for about £20K a unit and that is where my prediction or estimate/guess if you prefer came from - you are correct it may be too high. Hopefully we will find out before not too long...
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Aug 8, 2019 14:53:09 GMT
sure is - I estimated this one at £800K - whatever I really can't see it being well over £2m! On what basis are you predicting £800k given that the borrower bought it for £375k? Surely any supposed works carried out can be dismissed as cheap, shoddy, smoke-and-mirror type stuff done with the sole intent of fooling Fundingsecure into lending more money against the same security? We've been robbed. Investors in the 2807104089 loan may get a decent percentage of their capital back, perhaps 50%, but everyone else will get nothing. I'm no expert but that's the way I see it. I was under the impression that a considerable amount of work had been done including expensive fire prevention work. We already know that more work was required to finish than first thought, but it does seem value was added. I guess we will have to wait but I like to think(and hope) that at least the first charge loan is covered. That said, it would not be a first for this shower to hand out millions without ensuring it is being spent where it was supposed to be spent. As Adrian says, we'll find out the extent of this disaster soon enough. Indeed, even if the first loan holders get out with their shirts intact, this is still going to be a disaster.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 8, 2019 15:09:14 GMT
On what basis are you predicting £800k given that the borrower bought it for £375k? Surely any supposed works carried out can be dismissed as cheap, shoddy, smoke-and-mirror type stuff done with the sole intent of fooling Fundingsecure into lending more money against the same security? We've been robbed. Investors in the 2807104089 loan may get a decent percentage of their capital back, perhaps 50%, but everyone else will get nothing. I'm no expert but that's the way I see it. I was under the impression that a considerable amount of work had been done including expensive fire prevention work. We already know that more work was required to finish than first thought, but it does seem value was added. I guess we will have to wait but I like to think(and hope) that at least the first charge loan is covered. That said, it would not be a first for this shower to hand out millions without ensuring it is being spent where it was supposed to be spent. As Adrian says, we'll find out the extent of this disaster soon enough. Indeed, even if the first loan holders get out with their shirts intact, this is still going to be a disaster. Do you think syalith is wrong when he suggests that any work done would only be as part of an excercise to encourage FS to pay the remaining tranches? Was there any monitoring at all of the loan? I'm in for quite a bit in the first loan and I do fear as he does what motive the borrower would have had to spend a lot of money on top of the 375k already spent to purchase ? I'm no expert though and I hope very much I'm wrong.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 8, 2019 17:51:03 GMT
I still make the total £2.445m plus the above £140K supplementary loan as does Mrc painful reading- not saying I am right but we will soon find out. Doing a lot of work in such a development does not necessarily mean it will be recovered - in fact ,generally, 50% will be a good result and if the work has not been done properly then it may have devalued the property! We were told there was a new roof frame for Whitehaven before it evaporated into thin air! Thinking about this character - he sounds a bit of a smooth talker to me and I am puzzled where he got the £1m he talked about to do the fire safety work - I don't recall FS providing proof from the Fire Authorities that this had been done - maybe I missed it? If fact I am beginning to wonder if all this constant delay is due to problems with signing the building off - prove me wrong FS! Syalith stated "We've been robbed - I could not possibly comment! I thank you
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Aug 16, 2019 8:11:18 GMT
Well, today is supposed to be the day the property is sold and perhaps my faith in Funding Secure will be restored, but more likely it will be a complete and utter disaster with most people losing all their money and that's if the sale happens at all. If only this sort of thing was a rarity, but it's not of course. I'll be keeping a close eye on my email today though!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 16, 2019 9:05:09 GMT
Sadly I think you are 100% right and I agree with the price being under £1m - I have no idea what it will sell for but if the building work hasn't been done properly and needs re-doing with scaffolding re-erected etc it is going to be horrendously low...
Well it is not going to be today as yet ANOTHER "small" delay - as I said I bet this buyer is being allowed to screw the FS receivers into the ground and/or there is a problem or delay with the final structural report or whatever.
Well the good news is that I have some spare wellies, waterproof overall and full face mask for sale - are you interested FS as you are about to be covered in something fan generated and very unpleasant!
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Aug 16, 2019 14:40:40 GMT
Well, it's looking increasingly likely that we are going to be disappointed once again.Nothing new there!
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 19, 2019 10:47:37 GMT
So we can expect this one to complete today (19th) - course it will! The initial 2 week delay is now over a 6 week delay...
I have had a quick look at the related loans - I note the 2 Welsh developments may realise 100% capital recovery but they won't realise the full, if any, interest. I sure as hell don't think this one is going to do so "well". I also note in the Welsh Hotel there were building issues so I really hope this is not the case there although it might explain why this one seems to be dragging on forever - the early loans are edging towards being 2 years late...
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Aug 19, 2019 11:19:13 GMT
So we can expect this one to complete today (19th) - course it will! The initial 2 week delay is now over a 6 week delay... I have had a quick look at the related loans - I note the 2 Welsh developments may realise 100% capital recovery but they won't realise the full, if any, interest. I sure as hell don't think this one is going to do so "well". I also note in the Welsh Hotel there were building issues so I really hope this is not the case there although it might explain why this one seems to be dragging on forever - the early loans are edging towards being 2 years late... 2 years late? Oh, quite recent ones then.
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