adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 28, 2019 16:47:11 GMT
hopefully you are correct - I will be so pleased when this one is over! However I will be very surprised if the buyer does not recover this sum by forcing the price down. Yes we are all concerned about the final selling price!
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pip
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Post by pip on Sept 28, 2019 19:11:38 GMT
I hope people get a recovery, I really do. However I would say until the money is in your bank account don’t assume anything.. I am in the supplemental loan so no hope for my money. Wonder which account my money is now sitting in? What checks did FS do on the use of previous loans before handing over my money?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 29, 2019 2:04:41 GMT
I'm over the moon with this update. I have large sum in the first charge loan and had half written it off in my mind. I'm not home and dry yet but with the new buyer paying a £25k deposit they certainly seem committed to buying it. The biggest positive for me is the price, it seems to be more than enough to cover the first loan with interest even after receiver's costs which was my main concern. I'm in the same boat. I dearly wish this to repay. The updates however, seem to me to be utter nonsense. If you read the latest update it seems quite positive. Then remind yourself of the previous few for this year and you can see it makes no sense. If this repays this year, heck if even the promised 25K figure is paid (with proof) I will very happily eat some humble pie. At this stage, I'm very angry at the update quality and am certain - almost 100% certain - no money or very little is ever going to be returned. To be clear, I don't know any more than anyone else but its what I believe.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 29, 2019 8:58:54 GMT
absolutely - I have been thinking about this exclusivity fee and I am not happy.
This is not even peanuts for a property we have been told is worth over £4m (the hell it is) If my legal understanding is correct, it means the seller i.e. receivers can't negotiate with another buyer which does not ring true to me. This indicates a long drawn-out long process to me - why not charge a hefty non-returnable deposit and by hefty I mean well into 6 figures. Or even ask the buyer to sign the damn contract! We are told the buyer has proof of funds - wonder when they are available? If he has the money for these damn flats then why the delay? Maybe we have to wait whilst he does extensive DD? Sounds to me that FS are spinning this situation to be more positive than it is and hoping it comes good before they run out of ideas!
I would love to see proof of this exclusivity agreement but I guess that is not going to happen.
What happens if this buyer forces the price down and then pulls out as the last one (or two?) did - will the receivers have to start marketing all over again with the possibility that a colleague of the original buyer steps in with an even lower offer?
As I have said before it is generally not easy nor profitable to sell a part-completed property development. Congratulations FS as you have clearly got yourselves with OUR money into a right pickle over this one!
I don't want to sound negative but I am really not expecting any monies before 2020 and I just hate to think what the final settlement - prove we wrong FS....
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james21
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Post by james21 on Sept 29, 2019 13:37:27 GMT
absolutely - I have been thinking about this exclusivity fee and I am not happy. This is not even peanuts for a property we have been told is worth over £4m (the hell it is) If my legal understanding is correct, it means the seller i.e. receivers can't negotiate with another buyer which does not ring true to me. This indicates a long drawn-out long process to me - why not charge a hefty non-returnable deposit and by hefty I mean well into 6 figures. Or even ask the buyer to sign the damn contract! We are told the buyer has proof of funds - wonder when they are available? If he has the money for these damn flats then why the delay? Maybe we have to wait whilst he does extensive DD? Sounds to me that FS are spinning this situation to be more positive than it is and hoping it comes good before they run out of ideas! I would love to see proof of this exclusivity agreement but I guess that is not going to happen. What happens if this buyer forces the price down and then pulls out as the last one (or two?) did - will the receivers have to start marketing all over again with the possibility that a colleague of the original buyer steps in with an even lower offer? As I have said before it is generally not easy nor profitable to sell a part-completed property development. Congratulations FS as you have clearly got yourselves with OUR money into a right pickle over this one! I don't want to sound negative but I am really not expecting any monies before 2020 and I just hate to think what the final settlement - prove we wrong FS.... ""the possibility that a colleague of the original buyer steps in with an even lower offer? "" This I have long thought is a fairly uncommon occurrence in FS loans but does happen and is very difficult to prove
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Sept 29, 2019 13:57:49 GMT
I would have thought any skeletons in this buildings closet would have been well and truly dragged into the daylight and dusted off by now, I'm not sure DD is going to tell the buyer anything he doesn't already know.
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syalith
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Post by syalith on Sept 29, 2019 14:43:18 GMT
If you read the latest update it seems quite positive. Then remind yourself of the previous few for this year and you can see it makes no sense. That's true, they've given us false hope before, but this time seems different, they've come clean about the sale price which has revealed millions in losses for investors. You would think if they were going to continue down the path of lies and deception they would have kept that bombshell hidden, but they didn't and so I'm inclined to believe the latest update is truthful. I will be very surprised if the buyer does not recover this sum by forcing the price down. I have been thinking about this exclusivity fee and I am not happy. The way I read the update, the [new] buyer has agreed a price but isn't ready to complete for 4-6 weeks. They have paid £25k to have the property taken off the market during this time. I don't see what the purpose of a deposit would be if the price had not already been agreed upon?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 29, 2019 15:14:37 GMT
If you read the latest update it seems quite positive. Then remind yourself of the previous few for this year and you can see it makes no sense. That's true, they've given us false hope before, but this time seems different, they've come clean about the sale price which has revealed millions in losses for investors. You would think if they were going to continue down the path of lies and deception they would have kept that bombshell hidden, but they didn't and so I'm inclined to believe the latest update is truthful. I will be very surprised if the buyer does not recover this sum by forcing the price down. I have been thinking about this exclusivity fee and I am not happy. The way I read the update, the [new] buyer has agreed a price but isn't ready to complete for 4-6 weeks. They have paid £25k to have the property taken off the market during this time. I don't see what the purpose of a deposit would be if the price had not already been agreed upon? Hi. Thanks for reply and I hope your analysis is proven closer to the truth than mine. If they've come clean about the sale price what is it? I can't see anything in the updates about a price although it does say it is enough to repay 1st charge holders so really if I'm being selfish that's good enough for me but there is no sale price anywhere? What p****ed me off was that the updates have talking about a specific buyer since April. No mention of him/her/it paying a 25K holding deposit? Such a deposit would be paid soon after a sale is agreed in principle and is paid well before the main conveyancing legals are started. Yet the update prior to this one was talking IMO nonsense about lawyers and documentation being completed and agreed. It is, in my opinion, all utter rubbish. Even if they repay, we deserve an explanation and apology for the how shall I put it.... somewhat economical with the truth? I would certainly be very happy (4 figures happy) to be proved wrong.
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syalith
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Post by syalith on Sept 29, 2019 19:27:34 GMT
If they've come clean about the sale price what is it? I can't see anything in the updates about a price although it does say it is enough to repay 1st charge holders so really if I'm being selfish that's good enough for me but there is no sale price anywhere? What p****ed me off was that the updates have talking about a specific buyer since April. No mention of him/her/it paying a 25K holding deposit? Such a deposit would be paid soon after a sale is agreed in principle and is paid well before the main conveyancing legals are started. Yet the update prior to this one was talking IMO nonsense about lawyers and documentation being completed and agreed. It is, in my opinion, all utter rubbish. Even if they repay, we deserve an explanation and apology for the how shall I put it.... somewhat economical with the truth? I would certainly be very happy (4 figures happy) to be proved wrong. I agree, the updates are still not clear enough however this one is a huge improvement over the previous ones, which were as you say, utter rubbish. You're correct, they don't tell us the exact sale price but do tell us it's slightly more than enough to pay back the first ranking loan, not ideal, but better than before where they told us nothing. The property was found by someone in this thread to have recently been placed back on the market so I believe this is a new buyer and not the one who's been messing us about for months on end, but again, the update is not clear and we cannot be sure. One thing that gives me hope is that I've been using Fundingsecure for a few years now and on every occasion when they've posted a confidant update like this stating that the loan will be repaid in full, it has been. I suppose for now it's just more waiting, then in six weeks time we will know for sure. If this buyer pulls out having put down £25,000 then we'll know there's something seriously wrong, perhaps structurally, with the property. As always, nothing is certain, and we can't count our chickens yet, but I'm about 85% sure this sale goes through shortly and we as first charge holders get paid out in full, whereas before this update I was expecting a 50% capital loss on the first loan.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Sept 29, 2019 20:53:16 GMT
I can't believe this building has secrets anymore. If this sale fails it won't be down to an undisclosed skeleton in the closet.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 2, 2019 10:44:41 GMT
I have had another quick look at this one - looks like the first charge alone is going to be active for 2 years before funds are realised. I make the first charge with interest to be about £800K but we have expenses to pay. Is there anybody in the business who could indicate roughly what the security is likely to be for a building such as this - I would guess at least £3K a month but I really have no idea. If the selling price is lowered and receiver costs etc come in at a high level then this is really going to eat into the second charge...
I thank you.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Oct 3, 2019 7:32:31 GMT
Clearly this one is a complete and utter disaster
Speaking of which there is an even worse one with *unding not square" - it is the North Devon "executive" house which now looks like a dilapidated WW2 gun battery. At least our development doesn't look ready for demolition!
Please PM me if you want a link to the Daily Mail article that describes this disaster.
As myself and others have said I am really not convinced the p2p business model works for a lot of property development loans and sooner or later a crisis of confidence is going to hit the entire p2p industry...just my opinion.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Nov 8, 2019 8:59:16 GMT
how will this one work out now?i thought this was nearly done and dusted.25k deposit have FS left that there before FFing off or will the buyer become a creditor.a mini LY HQ situation maybe.
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thedog
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Post by thedog on Nov 8, 2019 9:48:11 GMT
how will this one work out now?i thought this was nearly done and dusted.25k deposit have FS left that there before FFing off or will the buyer become a creditor.a mini LY HQ situation maybe. Impossible to know without sight of the contracts. I can't recall - was this being sold out of a receivership over the borrower? Was this the "contracts agreed but not signed (??) but here's a deposit anyway" one?
If this is being sold out of receivership then I think sale should be able to go through, albeit perhaps with some delay. In that case FS isn't directly a party to the sale - the Receiver is. That Receiver might want some protection in the form of a confirmation from the FS Administrators that they are comfortable with the sale price, but ultimately if the property's been marketted and this is the best price the receiver has been able to obtain it goes ahead and he distributes funds to the Creditors of the borrowing company which is FS as Security Trustee. It's not really the receiver's problem that that creditor is itself in Administration and that money then flows to us as beneficiaries of that Trust. Eventually....
In that scenario I would think the Receiver currently has possession of the deposit rather than FS.
If the borrower wasn't in a receivorship I would guess buyer's funds are in escrow or in some other way segregated in a ring-fenced account, especially as he's not buying the property off FS as such, but who knows... In that case I'd expect the Administrators to want to pursue the sale in which case goes through as before. Again perhaps with administrative (no pun intended...) delays.
Unless it's explicitly stated in the purchase contract the buyer cannot walk away just because FS are in Admin.
That's the thoery, in practice of course the buyer might be willing to risk losing his deposit if he thinks he can now argue the price down. Or if FS were in some way funding the security/maintenance of the property and that's stopped he might have a right to terminate. Or not have a right to terminate but no longer be willing to go through and lose his deposit (and risk being sued for specific performance). Or a million other things that might or might not be in the contracts....
All usual caveats apply. That's my layman's understanding, this is not professional advice just an opinion, I'm not a lawyer or an Insolvency Practitioner, if anyone wants legal advice hire a lawyer, don't read a Board.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Nov 8, 2019 12:21:30 GMT
ref the above post £25K is not exactly what I would call a deposit for a transaction of this size - it is still possible this one will complete within 6 weeks but we have heard that one before!
I will be very surprised if this buyer (assuming he is still interested) will not be aware just how strong his position is and will be quite happy to forgo the deposit and force the price down or get a friend to put in an even lower offer - I bet the local developers are circling around this one like vultures over a Turkey twizzler!
I note in my poll there is a vote for a 100% loan book recovery - this may turn out to be correct but I foresee a 7 figure loss on this one alone so for a 100% recovery we will need a lot of loans to come good...nobody would be happier than I if we do get 100% back!
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