stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 20, 2017 15:47:43 GMT
Just discovered how apt the source book for the message is stated to be from. A 45bc treatise on ethics! Hm!
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 20, 2017 22:38:23 GMT
stub8535 Apologies, I delivered the link in response to your request of an updated faq: " Next we may see a change to faq to help investors to use write offs against tax." In hope that this would aid any lender reading the thread. In conjunction I have also requested an edit to the stats page, which should be completed ASAP. In regards to the use of archaic language on the regions page that was temporarily live, we can assure you that no deliberate communication was meant, this page is still in development and was not due to go live. The text was in fact Lorem Ipsum rather than latin, which is a filler text commonly used in graphical design, it has no relevance to what text will be later added to the pages, apologies for the confusion. You should have also just received a response to your ticket from Michael answering the questions put forward, please feel free to copy the response here at your discretion. I do hope no question has gone unanswered, and please feel free to get in contact with any further query. Kind Regards Ben
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 20, 2017 22:44:31 GMT
As requested. Hi Sxxxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your subsequent replies and feedback.
To say we are simply 'waiting' for the FCA's consultation paper on the topic was possibly a poor choice of language in my original response. We are currently consulting with them on this and a number of other issues with the hope that a more uniform standard for the classification of defaults and bad debt across the industry may be shortly forthcoming. We are currently conducting our own internal review into this issue to see if there’s anything else we could be doing to make it easier for lenders to complete their tax returns.
I have attempted to provide answers to your specific questions below:
Could you provide an explanation about how to get from the loan ID on the report to the loan title on the dashboard please?
There is no way to navigate directly from a loan mentioned in the report to the application page on our site.
The purpose of the CSV report is to give lenders and potential lenders open and transparent information about our current loanbook and the overall performance. It does not seek to name individual companies or to detail more individualised data on each company, or for each individual lender.
We suggest you use other areas of the site to find out the information you may be looking for, should that information be specific to a particular company or a particular investment that you hold.
The easiest way to track your own investments and the performance of your portfolio is via your dashboard. You can click into the 'Est. Loss' tab, which contains the breakdown of the estimated recovery percentages and total capital outstanding in each loan you currently hold capital in which has been classified as in default. From this popup, you can click on the name of any of the listed loans and be taken to the application page for that loan. This page contains the loan updates tab, listing blurb, date of auction completion and so on. If it would be easier, I can provide separate links to the listing page for each defaulted loan you have invested in via email, please let me know if this would be useful.
You can also browse the current loans via our secondary market and sort and filter via a number of criteria which may be useful to find a specific loan.
Could you explain what triggers you use in order to place loans into none performing, recovery and written off in the report please? This is to save me guessing.
The classifications are as follows:
A non-performing loan is a loan that has missed a repayment by more than five days, and no legal action has yet been taken to recover payments, although our collections team will be in contact (or attempting to contact) the borrower.
A Recovery loan is a loan that has missed a payment by more than 90 days and / or has been declared to be in default by our risk team and as such legal enforcement proceedings are underway.
A loan that has been written off is a loan for which all avenues of recovery have been exhausted and the loan can be declared as bad debt and is reflected in your Deductions section of the dashboard.
Regarding your final paragraph, we appreciate your feedback and comments regarding this area. Whilst we must of course remind lenders that their tax affairs are between them and the HMRC, we do believe that we provide lenders with the information necessary to complete their tax returns and, whilst we are looking to make the peer to peer tax relief potential more clear to lenders, we also believe that the information needed by a lender to assess their investment portfolio and submit a claim for a peer to peer tax relief where that lender deems it appropriate is available.
To this end, I would refer you to the HMRC guidance on income tax relief for P2P loans - SAIM 12000 (linked below).
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/597959/Income_tax_relief_for_irrecoverable_peer_to_peer_loans_FINAL_GUIDANCE__2_.pdf
As stated in my previous reply, whilst we do not classify a loan as unrecoverable / bad debt until our legal recovery process has either been concluded or shows no potential of recovery, we do acknowledge that lenders may be eligible for bad debt relief prior to this date in accordance with the recent HMRC and statutory changes. Factors like the commencement of the legal recovery process (the existence of an IVA or bankruptcy against a guarantor; or administration, CVA or liquidation in relation to the company) are relevant in this regard. You can see the latest developments via the loan updates tab of the application in question to see the latest on the legal recovery process. The estimated recovery figures for each defaulted loan are updated regularly and are visible via your dashboard.
I hope this reply is informative.
This is an area which we expect to be able to have some positive developments on shortly, so I would encourage you to keep an eye out for improvements in this regard. I will keep you ticket open to make it easier for me to let you know when this has occurred, and of course please feel free to let me know any further feedback or questions you may have, as the input of knowledgeable lenders is central to most of our improvements.
Michael Your rebuildingsociety.com Team, We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please reply to this email or login to your account for a complete I will post my response to them here along with their answer when it arrives. I have my own view on the response which will be posted once Michael has an opportunity to answer them. Any comments from people on the forum would be eagerly awaitedS
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 24, 2017 8:40:09 GMT
I have confirmation that the Latin quoted was, as stated by benrebs, filler text. I await corroboration from a third source. I await response from rebuilding society to my letter on the back of my previous sent Friday.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 25, 2017 15:28:57 GMT
michaelrebs benrebs Having received Michaels answers, listed above, I was dissatisfied at the answers given. I subsequently sent a response to Michael seeking further clarification and, as yet, have received no reply. Responses would be much appreciated. Thanks S
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 27, 2017 17:07:28 GMT
michaelrebs benrebs any answers rather than the "your message is being considered by the team and we will get back to you" response would be helpful. Maybe the teams attendance at the conference in Leeds has taken up your time. Interesting take on facts by the founder. Interesting use of trust and other hook words to try and convince the people of Yorkshire to place their ISA money with investUp and rebuilding society. I am sure that Dans blaming the FCA for lack of clarity on defaults and irrecoverables/ bad debt in his speech won't go unnoticed. Strange that I came across an HMRC guidance document today that indicates, amongst other things, that loans where action including iva, bankruptcy etc can be classed as irrecoverable for tax purposes. Maybe this is the way you can get round your refusal to state what moves something from default (in recovery) to a claimable category (not bad debt) for a portion of defaults for lenders taxation purposes without comparing badly against the competition that have different triggers. I do hope you can elicit a response very soon from Michael to my questions sent in response to the previously posted answer. S
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 27, 2017 20:16:50 GMT
First time I've ever seen anyone manage eight consecutive posts on this forum. Given the apparent lack of interest from other forum members, perhaps you stub8535 should conduct your interrogation of Rebs in private, and just report back at the end?
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 27, 2017 21:58:24 GMT
captainconfident you seem to imply that I give up and leave Rebuilding Society alone as no one is interested in bad debts, or lack of declaration, thereof upon the platform. Interesting take on losses. My 'interrogation" as you put it, rather emotive language but hey ho!, started as a simple question about classifications as bad debt way before this thread started. Lack of clear answers brought me on here. Sometimes, the only way to get action is by placing things in the public space. I expect that those nursing £2 million defaults, but £0 bad debt on the platform, would expect a platform reps to come back with a straight forward answer? Instead, we see a blaming of the FCA for lack of guidance round consistency for reporting. The latest version at the Leeds festival speech today by Mr Rajkumar. HMRC state very clearly what is allowed to be classed as irrecoverable. All the staff need do is ring them up for the relevent documents. Lets start there and then let the FCA have their place in the limelight after the prevarication/ consultation is over. If Rebuilding Society, or their minions, wish me to go away or stop posting about bad debts then Rebuilding Society have to do just one thing. Answer the question in a professional way in public. This way the whole lending crew and not just the captain can regain lost confidence. Maybe. I must finish their as I can feel the effects of morphine rising and pain declining. Come oblivion! Regards S
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Post by dodgeydave on Apr 28, 2017 0:00:44 GMT
It is not only about when a loan is actually classed as bad debt.
What about some clarity on recoveries . I do believe last year we had one loan that was recovered.
The collections and recovery team even suggest to Rebs that they call in the security on several loans , and it looks like this advice is ignored .
A certain person keeps mentioning the word trust . Trust is a two way thing . How can a platform be trusted when it hides behind facts or refuses to answers questions.
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kevinkelly
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Post by kevinkelly on Apr 28, 2017 11:25:56 GMT
First time I've ever seen anyone manage eight consecutive posts on this forum. Given the apparent lack of interest from other forum members, perhaps you stub8535 should conduct your interrogation of Rebs in private, and just report back at the end? I sincerely hope he carries on crossposting into this forum. Some of what he types is of interest, at least to me! Those that don't want to read it can skip to the next topic.
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binkle
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Post by binkle on Apr 30, 2017 16:07:23 GMT
I believe I may have asked a similar question many months ago, with no real reply. I for one would value all P2p lenders offering statements that broadly match HMRC guidance, which is not really that obscure. It gives me the confidence that what I write off in a year will match their records and be evidenced in their tax statement if I was asked to evidence. This is an issue for anyone with over 1K interest to declare...
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 30, 2017 19:30:14 GMT
binkle you raise a good point but I wish to keep this thread fully focused on getting the answer to my original question. Anything else is for a new thread. The question that needs answering, now, is "what do you (rebuilding society) classify as bad debt". You are refusing point blank to address this issue. You claim, backed up in your accusation on your video, the FCA are holding you up. That is an assertion unworthy of any businessman. Its very simple. Answer the question fully and I will move on. Binkle looks to be offering you a way out. danraj rebsrepPlease, if I have missed a deserving tag, people on the forum, add it on my behalf or pm me for addition tomorrow.
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Post by danraj on May 2, 2017 22:46:26 GMT
A Default becomes a Bad Debt only at the end of the legal enforcement process. Normally this is once a borrower has been declared bankrupt (where a personal guarantee is given) or where part of the loan is recovered and part is written off.
Until a Defaulted loan becomes a Bad Debt we anticipate some form of recovery. The majority of Defaulted loans will make repayments, albeit outside of the normal repayment schedule.
Rebuildingsociety puts a loan into Default at 90 days past due (after 3 missed repayments) this is ahead of the 120 days used by the P2PFA and part of the reason why some of our loans appear to be in default for longer.
If you do not want to participate in the legal enforcement and recovery process, you may opt to forego your microloans (by contacting support@rebuildingsociety.com) in which case we will convert your capital outstanding to Bad Debt at your request.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on May 8, 2017 22:54:03 GMT
Ah, wonderful, we finally have an answer. A re definition if the term to suit the danraj but at least everyone knows. How odd that you still resist advice and guidance from even your supporters on this thread. As for your attempt at pointing out how fantastic you are by defaulting a loan at 90 days as compared to p2pfa members 120- at least they display meaningful statistics in a consistent way for all to see. Shame you will not do the same. What association are you part of, ah yes -one that fails to respond to direct questions and has no controls over its membership. Suit you Sir. As for your attempt to abdicate your responsibility for recoveries for the raft of bad loans you brought to platform, interesting. Lets see. NO Counter offer- refund immediately the sum expected to be recovered according to your recovery team as of tonight. Make the offer open to all. After all, you must trust your recoveries team. I would like you to pass my thanks for the 3.5 pints of cheapest real ale recovery on one loan since you made the offer. danraj it was great to see you warning inexperienced lenders not to invest with you on a recent facebook post. Great breakthrough in trust. Have you got a date for the text file on your video from Leeds festival yet? I am sure lenders that are hard of hearing or have older technology would be as interested in your words as your audience was. For those wondering why the gap before my response I have been dealing with looking after my elderly mother who has Alzheimer's disease at the same time as having no use of my right arm from elbow to wrist requiring mind expanding prescription medication. My arm use issue almost back under control. Mums issues will just degenerate.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on May 9, 2017 10:45:59 GMT
www.rebuildingsociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Capture.pngThe above is at odds with you 90 day grace stated. Potentially you could "default (whatever danraj means by that term?)" a loan at 60 days or at any time really, nothing stated about 90 days quoted in danraj response, if the checks and balances throw up an issue and start the totally "unique" Rebuilding Society collections processes that are as clear as frozen butter and do not put lenders first. Reporting of the different classifications in the statistics pages for "true international business definition" default to bad debt to unrecoverable is as biased as statistical reporting can get. Columns have "definitions" which themselves need clarification if danraj can redefine such a simple term as bad debt to mean unrecoverable when Government bodies use the true definition with clear guidance as to their meaning. It opens the questions 1 why might Rebuilding Society management not want to use correct definitions? 2 What would be the issue if they did? If, in doing so, it shows them poorly against same asset class lenders then hiding the fact may be tempting. A better business solution for p2p platforms could be to put it out there and give clear explanations as to why the figures are bad and what's being done about it. That way a P2P platform could have kept the "trust" they have built up rather than it disappearing rapidly. It would also allow platform owners the space to decide if they wish to change direction, in an orderly way, back to specialities that suit the management teams skill set more closely. No shame in that.
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