Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 9, 2019 13:14:27 GMT
thanks for this - I now make the overall return 60% - fantastic I am totally baffled why this is so complicated to work out - surely FS aren't trying to minimise bad news with these confidential emails, redefined loan titles etc I won't be surprised if the other director's loan (of which I am in several) come in at a similar or even worse level. Goodness knows I have made some bad decisions in my developing career but even for a born again slaphead such as moi losing 40% is no mean feat and as for the 100% losses... On the bright side for some the loss is able to be offset against profits. !!!
Now let me think??? Where are those profits again ?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 9, 2019 16:14:11 GMT
What ***** profits. Luckily the Landrover has repaid - I guess I am like a lot of people and am now left with what I perceive as rubbish loans - not least the art ones. Of course all my defaulted loans may come good and Michael Gove never took cocaine... but in my spreadsheet I have budgeted an overall 75% loss on these remaining loans which will make a massive return of minus £66 on £3000K (rough average) over 2.5 years. Luckily I read this forum before I put large sums into FS so just love this forum although I should have paid greater attention to the warnings! Those of you that have had mega losses - potentially up to £0.5m really have my sympathy and I really don't blame you. I am staggered as to just how badly " some of these loans have been "managed". I really see no excuse for the art loans etc - if I ran my business with a similar level of expertise I would now be bust - big time!
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 9, 2019 16:35:38 GMT
What ***** profits. Luckily the Landrover has repaid - I guess I am like a lot of people and am now left with what I perceive as rubbish loans - not least the art ones. Of course all my defaulted loans may come good and Michael Gove never took cocaine... but in my spreadsheet I have budgeted an overall 75% loss on these remaining loans which will make a massive return of minus £66 on £3000K (rough average) over 2.5 years. Luckily I read this forum before I put large sums into FS so just love this forum although I should have paid greater attention to the warnings! Those of you that have had mega losses - potentially up to £0.5m really have my sympathy and I really don't blame you. I am staggered as to just how badly " some of these loans have been "managed". I really see no excuse for the art loans etc - if I ran my business with a similar level of expertise I would now be bust - big time! A Tad premature again. There have been some losses lately but there also has been full recovery on defaulted loans if you had equal amounts in all then the returns on your paying loans oughtweigh the losses even if you were unfortunate to have something in all the losing loans. Big D**l loss was in £10000 loan.
I still have only one loan >24 months therefore 100% and that was <£100 a few days interest overall.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 9, 2019 19:40:48 GMT
Maybe or maybe not : the art loans are about 50% of my defaulted loans and I just can't see where the money to repay them is going to come from but happy to be told why I am wrong to think this. I am also in Lytham St Annes, tower block in Formby, not very big sculptures etc etc so maybe a 75% loss in not unreasonable...
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 10, 2019 23:09:23 GMT
Maybe or maybe not : the art loans are about 50% of my defaulted loans and I just can't see where the money to repay them is going to come from but happy to be told why I am wrong to think this. I am also in Lytham St Annes, tower block in Formby, not very big sculptures etc etc so maybe a 75% loss in not unreasonable... Art was fraud I don’t expect anything from that about £600 others may show loss but they are only 4 or 5 and should only reduce your returns to a sill reasonable amount Even at 100% loss.
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petrichory
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Post by petrichory on Jun 24, 2019 0:04:27 GMT
Art was fraud I don’t expect anything from that about £600 others may show loss but they are only 4 or 5 and should only reduce your returns to a sill reasonable amount Even at 100% loss. Not all fraud needs to be as obvious as the Art loans to still be fraud - in fact, I think the D*ll (Phase 1 but particularly Phase 2) is a classic case. Soliciting investments with information that is verifiably false is also a type of fraud if the person or company making said statement stands to gain from the inclusion of deliberately erroneous and misleading statements. While the language on Phase 1 is more hesitant - the apartments "are to be sold" to M****** Living - the language for Phase 2 is much less ambiguous. On the 11th of April 2017, the updated valuation stated that the 39 houses in Phrase 2 " have been pre-sold to R******** Housing for approx. £3,700,000" The valuation was then increased to £2,350,000, " with all 39 houses having been sold off-plan." On the 20th of October 2017, the loan update stated " all properties having now been presold off-plan" On the 20th of December, the loan is renewed with a carbon-copy of the above statements about the pre-sold nature of the project. In other words, for eight months the loan was continuously advertised as being a bridging loan for a pre-sold project. When the loan renewed after exactly 180 days, this information goaded lenders into a false sense of security. I can appreciate that it can take a considerable amount of time to complete on a project of this size, especially when a social housing association is involved. HOWEVER, eight bloody months is more than enough time to verify the sale, ratify the contracts, dot the i's and cross the t's. There is simply no way that the pre-sold nature of the project was still a factual reality at the time the loan was last renewed. If this information had appeared in a simple loan update, which are notoriously useless and unreliable, it could have been ascribed to one instance of carelessness. Crucially however, this information was repeated at least four times and even in the renewal which, for all intents and purposes, is a new contract with new lenders who would have taken this information at face value without knowing it was deliberately out-of-date and counter-factual. This, my friend, is fraud - plain and simple. Only managing to recover 32% of the valuation is criminal but selling a £3,700,000 project for £800,000 is absolutely monstrous. The velocity of criminal energy at play here cannot merely be circumscribed by a menial and ineffectual word like "fraud".
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tony
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Post by tony on Jun 24, 2019 8:48:10 GMT
Having read all the posts relating to this and other FS loans, as well as posts relating to the loans I have with other platforms, I see that many contributors to this forum have specialist knowledge in investing, finance, company law etc and yet they have invested large sums in P2P lending. As an old guy who has no such expertise and who, over the past 70 years, has relied on bank and building societies to add a bit of interest to his meagre savings I have come to the conclusion that I am an idiot. Why? - because I never queried why borrowers resort to P2P with their very high interest rates but now I am of the opinion that they do so because they have been turned down by every other loan source whose expert due diligence has convinced them that it would be unwise to offer a loan. OK, many borrower's do repay their loans on time and investors enjoy their high interest payments but the ever increasing number of defaulted loans on all platforms tells me that many platforms are out of their depth when it comes to evaluating the borrowers security, honesty, valuations etc and are easily "conned" by those with far more experience.
I have lost what, in relation to my available capital, a lot of money with Lendy, Collateral and now Funding Secure and am not expecting to see any of it back in my lifetime. Who do I blame? - myself for being so stupid.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 24, 2019 9:35:06 GMT
being a bit hard on yourself - these companies are FCA "regulated" not that I would sack the lot of them! You are not as stupid as I am!
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Jun 24, 2019 11:34:11 GMT
Having read all the posts relating to this and other FS loans, as well as posts relating to the loans I have with other platforms, I see that many contributors to this forum have specialist knowledge in investing, finance, company law etc and yet they have invested large sums in P2P lending. As an old guy who has no such expertise and who, over the past 70 years, has relied on bank and building societies to add a bit of interest to his meagre savings I have come to the conclusion that I am an idiot. Why? - because I never queried why borrowers resort to P2P with their very high interest rates but now I am of the opinion that they do so because they have been turned down by every other loan source whose expert due diligence has convinced them that it would be unwise to offer a loan. OK, many borrower's do repay their loans on time and investors enjoy their high interest payments but the ever increasing number of defaulted loans on all platforms tells me that many platforms are out of their depth when it comes to evaluating the borrowers security, honesty, valuations etc and are easily "conned" by those with far more experience. I have lost what, in relation to my available capital, a lot of money with Lendy, Collateral and now Funding Secure and am not expecting to see any of it back in my lifetime. Who do I blame? - myself for being so stupid. I can totally understand that people who find it difficult to get a loan from "normal" lenders approaching P2P lenders and they are prepared to pay really high interest rates. I accept there is a high risk and that some loans will go "pear shaped" but I expect the P2P site to at least conduct what to me would be "normal" checks. What I can't understand is how stupid some P2P sites are when they accept any and all statements the borrowers make about the progress they have made in terms of building progress. How can a site with even a modicum of due diligence lend money against a building site where no building has occurred? The dishonesty from some borrowers FS appear able to accept on lenders behalf is breathtaking, hence my decision to stop lending.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 24, 2019 11:52:45 GMT
being a bit hard on yourself - these companies are FCA "regulated" not that I would sack the lot of them! You are not as stupid as I am! Definitely must have hit my head somewhere. I find myself agreeing with adrian77 Again You are too hard on yourself as is Adrian. The companies go to P2P as they offer what the banks no longer offer. Bridging finiance with deferred payments. If all is well and valuations and expectations are realistic it is a profitable experience for all. The problems come about by unrealistic valuations and over optimistic expectations. Loans should always be no more than 50% of their current valuations and never against GDV ALL loans should be first charge only. Valuations should be carried out at each 6 month term if renewed and also 3 months in and every 3 months on longer loans. 2 months late results in penalties and possession after 4 months late. This would give more security to lenders. If borrowers wish they can seek further funds when actual valuations warrant it. The can also seek second charge funding elsewhere from specialist lenders aware of increased risks. Do this and chances of loss is reduced dramatically. Tighten up background checks to avoid fraud and over extension on the borrower’s part and P2P can join the ranks of reasonable investment rather than risky investments. As always minimal investment in individual loans means overall loss risk is tiny.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 24, 2019 12:59:06 GMT
"The problems come about by unrealistic valuations and over optimistic expectations.Loans should always be no more than 50% of their current valuations and never against GDV ALL loans should be first charge only. Valuations should be carried out at each 6 month term if renewed and also 3 months in and every 3 months on longer loans."
You're an effing Genius Godanubis ! (Just a gentle rib, I know you know that. )
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 24, 2019 13:03:15 GMT
And dishonesty is a two, or three, or even four way street 09dolphin?
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 24, 2019 15:34:01 GMT
I agree and also I would say every month or so a copy of all invoices paid for site goods, labour etc should be forwarded to FS - maybe I am wrong (well I am stupid) but I get the impression FS do or did simply shovel out OUR money to the developers and then forget about it until the 6 months are up... I also totally agree IGNORE the GDV - in my experience this is meaningless - of course sometimes developments go like a dream but they often don't and it is far too early to place a realistic value on the developed land whilst no brick has been laid
Whilst I am here can somebody tell me if The D*** 7034393458 actually returned anything as I am updating my top 40
newsflash - just seen 15% recovery on the park homes - fantastic!
I thank you
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 24, 2019 16:33:03 GMT
I agree and also I would say every month or so a copy of all invoices paid for site goods, labour etc should be forwarded to FS - maybe I am wrong (well I am stupid) but I get the impression FS do or did simply shovel out OUR money to the developers and then forget about it until the 6 months are up... I also totally agree IGNORE the GDV - in my experience this is meaningless - of course sometimes developments go like and dream but they often don't and it is far too early to place a realistic value on the developed land whilst no brick has been laid Whilst I am here can somebody tell me if The D*** 7034393458 actually returned anything as I am updating my top 40 newsflash - just seen 15% recovery on the park homes - fantastic! I thank you Yes, but the recovery is an ongoing process and it would be wrong to comment (or speculate) here.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jun 24, 2019 18:33:02 GMT
what godanubis said was How can a site with even a modicum of due diligence lend money against a building site where no building has occurred?
To which I reply
Because they get their cut irrespective
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