fp
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 14:12:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by fp on Jun 16, 2017 14:12:12 GMT
If the SM was locked to other buyers it would not be a purchase on the open market and so lose its tax free wrapper. Sorry when I read that back it isn't what I meant it to sound like, I will detail a bit more so its clearer When we offer items to the SM it would be good if they were not immediately there, a short delay would allow the seller to navigate to the same loan page, I assume having ISA and NonISA on the same platform is going to need a few more clicks. So the net effect is that its on the open market, but that the seller can already be in place to purchase when it appears. Just reducing their risk of losing to someone faster of finger. As it is right now sellers have potentially more clicks or more windows to manage than someone keeping an eye on the SM. Of course one other option is to allow SM trades to be timed, so you can put in a time to sell (within limits) so again you can be in the right place in the SM to grab it as it comes up for sale If it isn't available for everyone to buy, the nett effect is that it is not on the open market for anyone else to buy as it is restricted to you only, even if it's for a few seconds.
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archie
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 14:23:50 GMT
Post by archie on Jun 16, 2017 14:23:50 GMT
Sorry when I read that back it isn't what I meant it to sound like, I will detail a bit more so its clearer When we offer items to the SM it would be good if they were not immediately there, a short delay would allow the seller to navigate to the same loan page, I assume having ISA and NonISA on the same platform is going to need a few more clicks. So the net effect is that its on the open market, but that the seller can already be in place to purchase when it appears. Just reducing their risk of losing to someone faster of finger. As it is right now sellers have potentially more clicks or more windows to manage than someone keeping an eye on the SM. Of course one other option is to allow SM trades to be timed, so you can put in a time to sell (within limits) so again you can be in the right place in the SM to grab it as it comes up for sale If it isn't available for everyone to buy, the nett effect is that it is not on the open market for anyone else to buy as it is restricted to you only, even if it's for a few seconds. I think robski is suggesting it is available to everyone but delayed for a few seconds or timed so he is ready to purchase when it shows up.
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fp
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 14:30:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by fp on Jun 16, 2017 14:30:17 GMT
If it isn't available for everyone to buy, the nett effect is that it is not on the open market for anyone else to buy as it is restricted to you only, even if it's for a few seconds. I think robski is suggesting it is available to everyone but delayed for a few seconds or timed so he is ready to purchase when it shows up. I know, what I'm saying is that it would then mean it is not available on the open market, if someone can't swoop in and buy it, then it's not on the open market
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archie
Posts: 1,838
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 14:37:58 GMT
Post by archie on Jun 16, 2017 14:37:58 GMT
I think robski is suggesting it is available to everyone but delayed for a few seconds or timed so he is ready to purchase when it shows up. I know, what I'm saying is that it would then mean it is not available on the open market, if someone can't swoop in and buy it, then it's not on the open market It is though, he might still lose it if someone is quicker. Not sure it's quite in the spirit of the rules.
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metoo
Member of DD Central
Posts: 540
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 15:44:02 GMT
Post by metoo on Jun 16, 2017 15:44:02 GMT
When we offer items to the SM it would be good if they were not immediately there, a short delay would allow the seller to navigate to the same loan page... The tax rules won't allow any special treatment as you're intended not to be buying from yourself. But you can have 2 browser windows open side by side, or use tabs in the browser to swap between pages. I expect some folk will stay up late at night and hope no one else is around to poach their loan parts.
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IFISAcava
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 16:35:52 GMT
via mobile
elliotn likes this
Post by IFISAcava on Jun 16, 2017 16:35:52 GMT
If the SM was locked to other buyers it would not be a purchase on the open market and so lose its tax free wrapper. Sorry when I read that back it isn't what I meant it to sound like, I will detail a bit more so its clearer When we offer items to the SM it would be good if they were not immediately there, a short delay would allow the seller to navigate to the same loan page, I assume having ISA and NonISA on the same platform is going to need a few more clicks. So the net effect is that its on the open market, but that the seller can already be in place to purchase when it appears. Just reducing their risk of losing to someone faster of finger. As it is right now sellers have potentially more clicks or more windows to manage than someone keeping an eye on the SM. Of course one other option is to allow SM trades to be timed, so you can put in a time to sell (within limits) so again you can be in the right place in the SM to grab it as it comes up for sale But the point of the SM isn't specifically to facilitate rebuying into your own ISA. You can of course do that, but only after having put it on the open market for however short a time, and at a risk of losing it, that risk minimised by using two devices. SM works fine IMHO, no need to change.
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n
Member of DD Central
Yet another Nick
Posts: 879
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 16:38:06 GMT
Post by n on Jun 16, 2017 16:38:06 GMT
It seems to me that this is a daft rule for this site. The open market does not control the price, it is fixed, and since no interest is being bought there are no tax implications.
I don't think the spirit of the rule has anything to do with the fairness or otherwise of others being able to hijack what might be in short supply.
On this site it should be allowed to simply have the platform transfer loans into your ISA account at face value.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 16, 2017 16:41:12 GMT
It seems to me that this is a daft rule for this site. The open market does not control the price, it is fixed, and since no interest is being bought there are no tax implications. I don't think the spirit of the rule has anything to do with the fairness or otherwise of others being able to hijack what might be in short supply. On this site it should be allowed to simply have the platform transfer loans into your ISA account at face value. You may think the rule is daft but since it is a FCA rule I suppose we will just have to obey it.
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IFISAcava
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 16:42:14 GMT
via mobile
elliotn likes this
Post by IFISAcava on Jun 16, 2017 16:42:14 GMT
It seems to me that this is a daft rule for this site. The open market does not control the price, it is fixed, and since no interest is being bought there are no tax implications. I don't think the spirit of the rule has anything to do with the fairness or otherwise of others being able to hijack what might be in short supply. On this site it should be allowed to simply have the platform transfer loans into your ISA account at face value. Point is that HMRC regs won't allow that, regardless of whether it is sensible. See also: shares.
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n
Member of DD Central
Yet another Nick
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 16:42:44 GMT
Post by n on Jun 16, 2017 16:42:44 GMT
It seems to me that this is a daft rule for this site. The open market does not control the price, it is fixed, and since no interest is being bought there are no tax implications. I don't think the spirit of the rule has anything to do with the fairness or otherwise of others being able to hijack what might be in short supply. On this site it should be allowed to simply have the platform transfer loans into your ISA account at face value. You may think the rule is daft but since it is a FCA rule I suppose we will just have to obey it. Indeed. It just seems a bit silly to have to use tricks to beat the system when it is the system that is wrong. Perhaps if we all wrote to our MPs?
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robski
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IFISA
Jun 16, 2017 19:48:42 GMT
Post by robski on Jun 16, 2017 19:48:42 GMT
When we offer items to the SM it would be good if they were not immediately there, a short delay would allow the seller to navigate to the same loan page... The tax rules won't allow any special treatment as you're intended not to be buying from yourself. But you can have 2 browser windows open side by side, or use tabs in the browser to swap between pages. I expect some folk will stay up late at night and hope no one else is around to poach their loan parts. Yep exactly, its available for anyone to buy, its just that the original seller can be ready
Its a bit of a silly rule for items that can only be sold at par, but the rules are the rules
Its obvious that where you have something that could be sold at an undervalue then you could put more money that you should be able to into an ISA, eg sell yourself £100k of shares for £20k you have just sheltered £100k rather than £20k, this we cant do on moneything
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Jun 16, 2017 20:12:10 GMT
The tax rules won't allow any special treatment as you're intended not to be buying from yourself. But you can have 2 browser windows open side by side, or use tabs in the browser to swap between pages. I expect some folk will stay up late at night and hope no one else is around to poach their loan parts. Yep exactly, its available for anyone to buy, its just that the original seller can be ready
Its a bit of a silly rule for items that can only be sold at par, but the rules are the rules
Its obvious that where you have something that could be sold at an undervalue then you could put more money that you should be able to into an ISA, eg sell yourself £100k of shares for £20k you have just sheltered £100k rather than £20k, this we cant do on moneything
Rules is rules. No way is any platform going to implement something specifically to help you bend the rules.
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dzo
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Post by dzo on Jun 16, 2017 22:38:32 GMT
You may think the rule is daft but since it is a FCA rule I suppose we will just have to obey it. Indeed. It just seems a bit silly to have to use tricks to beat the system when it is the system that is wrong. Perhaps if we all wrote to our MPs? The rule exists for a good reason. They're not going to create an exception for the tiny proportion of ISA investments that can only be sold at par. You're probably the only person in your constituency who even knows this issue exists.
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rs
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IFISA
Jun 17, 2017 10:42:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by rs on Jun 17, 2017 10:42:00 GMT
Indeed. It just seems a bit silly to have to use tricks to beat the system when it is the system that is wrong. Perhaps if we all wrote to our MPs? The rule exists for a good reason. They're not going to create an exception for the tiny proportion of ISA investments that can only be sold at par. You're probably the only person in your constituency who even knows this issue exists. when is MM IFISA going live?
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david42
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Post by david42 on Jun 17, 2017 22:04:46 GMT
But the point of the SM isn't specifically to facilitate rebuying into your own ISA. You can of course do that, but only after having put it on the open market for however short a time, and at a risk of losing it, that risk minimised by using two devices. SM works fine IMHO, no need to change. I confirm that using two devices to buy your own loans works fine. I regularly buy my own loans to amalgamate multiple loan parts. I open the buy page for the same loan on a second PC before I sell my loan parts. Then after pressing sell on the first PC, I refresh the availability on the second PC, click invest, type £9999999 then buy because the screen automatically reduces it to the amount available. I expect to use an approach like this to keep my MT ISA fully invested, and leave any uninvested cash outside the ISA where it is easier to move between platforms as opportunities arise.
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