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Post by charlata on Oct 25, 2017 18:25:27 GMT
But you are missing the whole point of P2P which is what Mary is trying to explain to you, these aren't loans that are purchased to be traded as and when. It is about doing your DD and investing in loans that you are happy to hold to settlement. I'm far from certain that either you or Mary get to arbitrate on what P2P is, or is not. You may want it to be exclusively for people who intend to hold to term, but you only get one vote, just like the rest of us. Platform profitability will be the ultimate arbiter. I maintain that PBL/DFL platforms without proper sm's will be forced to either grow-up or fail.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Oct 25, 2017 18:29:20 GMT
But you are missing the whole point of P2P which is what Mary is trying to explain to you, these aren't loans that are purchased to be traded as and when. It is about doing your DD and investing in loans that you are happy to hold to settlement. The SM's were generally founded to allow investors access to their money in the cases when they needed it back before the loan was settled not as a means of making more money from newcomers to the site which is generally who buys from the SM.
This disagreement runs and runs, see any conversation between GeorgeT and Cool Dude who sit on opposite sides of the fence on the SM debate. In my opinion to start offering discounts then you are stepping close to banking/trading realms and the fact that P2P hit against bankers is exactly why I first started investing the small spare cash I had at the time.
Do you think that people hate their bank manager who helps to arrange a loan for them or the guys that then trade on those debts in the background??? I don't want to see P2P become involved with anyone trying to make a quick buck.
Cash back is sometimes necessary to get a loan filled, discount trading isn't. Cash back is a cheaper alternative to underwriters before anyone mentions that.
Firstly sorry for hi-jacking the thread on this tangent, happy to continue discussing over on the other thread, I'll stop replying on here after this post about this. I do actually agree with you that the main point of P2P is doing DD and investing in good loans, but we can discuss more than one point at a time, I hope. I also agree that the SM's are primarily for investors to have possible access to their money early. A discounting SM helps to support that IMV, and avoids penalising lenders by preventing exits or charging them (a la Lendy). I don't agree that what I'm advocating for on MT (a discounting mechanism only, not premiums) is "a means of making more money from newcomers". There are only quite niche circumstances in which a discounting SM could really be exploited, and these can be largely counteracted by limiting any possible discount to 1%. I do agree with your opinion that offering discounts steps us closer to banking/trading realms, but so what? It is called P2P 'Investing' for a reason, and there aren't many other investment channels for which assets don't change in price. Shares do, cash accounts do, and people's homes do (even if they want to buy and hold after doing their DD on that one). Where assets cannot change in price, you almost certainly arrive at feast/famine situations in any walk of life. Also re: P2P/banks, please note that Zopa for one aspires to being a bank, and FC seem to focus on hiring bankers these days. IMV, the similarities outweigh the differences. Re: quick buck, again see above about what I'm proposing. You'll struggle to make anything beyond pocket change in a discounting SM capped at 1%. Final point (phew) - I do agree that discount trading is not required to fill a loan, and haven't suggested it might be. What it allows, IMV, is for investors wishing to exit, to do so. Edit: cross-posted with charlata - whose more succinct post is absolutely spot on.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Oct 25, 2017 18:57:14 GMT
Rubblization has two primary applications: creating a base for new roadways and decommissioning nuclear power plants." Can you combine the two and avoid the need for street lighting (glow in the dark roads)??
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duck
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Post by duck on Oct 26, 2017 4:35:23 GMT
Rubblization has two primary applications: creating a base for new roadways and decommissioning nuclear power plants." Can you combine the two and avoid the need for street lighting (glow in the dark roads)?? Well that might work, and it would have the added bonus that there wouldn't be the need for continuous debate about particulates from diesel since we would all be wearing respirators
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Oct 26, 2017 12:47:53 GMT
But you are missing the whole point of P2P which is what Mary is trying to explain to you, these aren't loans that are purchased to be traded as and when. It is about doing your DD and investing in loans that you are happy to hold to settlement. I'm far from certain that either you or Mary get to arbitrate on what P2P is, or is not. You may want it to be exclusively for people who intend to hold to term, but you only get one vote, just like the rest of us. Platform profitability will be the ultimate arbiter. I maintain that PBL/DFL platforms without proper sm's will be forced to either grow-up or fail. I am not sure how long you have been lending and maybe that is where P2P has now gone but originally P2P was set up to cut out the banks and their large profits made from loans to individuals whilst paying low interest to the peoples whose money they were playing with.
Technically the likes of Money Thing, Lendy and others aren't even P2P as they lend to business instead of people/peers so I suppose that changes the whole thing.
I do still believe that charging a premium or discount will disadvantage newcomers to P2P as they will have to either pay a premium for a good loan that is nearer to repaying/defaulting or get a bad loan at a discount again that is nearer to defaulting/repaying either way they take all of the risk from the original investor who walks away with most of his/her money (depending on the discount) and I would expect a profit from the interest already earned.
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victors
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Post by victors on Oct 26, 2017 14:07:57 GMT
Is that a hint or a guess? The developer is the regeneration arm of a well established firm of architects. Everything I've seen to date has been more than professional & they have been involved in some major development projects in Liverpool & Manchester. The LTV appears to be realistic & the fact that the development lies on the fringe of Liverpool's commercial district should give future sales a huge uplift. There are a small number of MT loans I have invested heavily in & this is one. I was struggling to pick up additional parts on the SM last week & now there's stampede for the exit. They say that markets often work on rumour & irrational forces & P2P is no different. If we introduce discounting on the SM we can do the same as the FTSE...talk a share down today & buy it tomorrow at a discount!
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victors
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Post by victors on Oct 26, 2017 14:18:02 GMT
I was googling the well established firm of architects of which the borrower is the development arm and I saw an entry in 'The Gazette'. Not sure what it means - but could someone more knowledgeable than me explain what it means.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Oct 26, 2017 18:22:09 GMT
I was googling the well established firm of architects of which the borrower is the development arm and I saw an entry in 'The Gazette'. Not sure what it means - but could someone more knowledgeable than me explain what it means. Hi SophieThingAny info you can share on this ?
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Oct 26, 2017 18:30:01 GMT
I was googling the well established firm of architects of which the borrower is the development arm and I saw an entry in 'The Gazette'. Not sure what it means - but could someone more knowledgeable than me explain what it means. Not sure what I should post here ...... so I shall avoid speculation ..... I notice the SM has gone up a bit. FWIW I'm not panicking ! I'm not selling ! But I'm no expert and have no inside information. The developer/borrowing company is a separate company to the architects but with common shareholder/director The codes for the type of notice can be found in the list here - check the numbers carefully (!) - note it's in the voluntary section. This could be happening for any number of perfectly legitimate reasons .....
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Oct 26, 2017 22:13:40 GMT
23:12 212k up - something's spooked the sheeple .........
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 22:16:37 GMT
Amazing, 200k available about 24 hours ago.
Queue cleared almost totally today with some massive buying...
... then that post about the Gazette appeared, and the queue shoots back up to 200k again!
Too much of a roller coaster for me!
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Oct 26, 2017 23:18:49 GMT
Yep, folk easily spooked. I’ve seen the Gazette notice which, aside from being called voluntarily (by the director), looks to me to be a positive move. (This last personal opinion fwiw based on fairly lengthy research into dozens of entities & folk in closer & less close proximity to our borrower). No crystal ball, warranties (dyor), or much I can add but would guess a certain design consultancy is likely to take on a more important role in future.
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fogey
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Post by fogey on Oct 27, 2017 0:19:05 GMT
Paranoia rules ok !
Paranoia is an instinct or thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality ...
Of course these extreme mood swings could also be a sign of Bipolar Disorder ... and as there are so many people involved there may be an element of Mass Hysteria ...
Mass hysteria is a condition affecting a group of persons, characterized by excitement or anxiety, irrational behaviour or beliefs, or inexplicable symptoms ...
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Oct 27, 2017 6:00:55 GMT
I was googling the well established firm of architects of which the borrower is the development arm and I saw an entry in 'The Gazette'. Not sure what it means - but could someone more knowledgeable than me explain what it means. Not sure what I should post here ...... so I shall avoid speculation ..... I notice the SM has gone up a bit. FWIW I'm not panicking ! I'm not selling ! But I'm no expert and have no inside information. The developer/borrowing company is a separate company to the architects but with common shareholder/director The codes for the type of notice can be found in the list here - check the numbers carefully (!) - note it's in the voluntary section. This could be happening for any number of perfectly legitimate reasons ..... There are two types of voluntary liquidation I think. CVL and MVL. I took my own company through an MVL. The 2442 code is for a CVL meeting I think. You can look up the difference by searching cvl vs mvl.
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Post by charlata on Oct 27, 2017 7:40:24 GMT
23:12 212k up - something's spooked the sheeple ......... Not sure this is fair. What you are calling sheeple, are probably just traders. An investment you can exit quickly is worth more than an investment you have to wait to exit. This is why instant access pays less than a notice account. This loan used to be liquid. Now it is not. The loan is now worth less because sentiment has moved against it. In a normal market the price would have dropped, and liquidity would have returned. For someone who previously judged the loan to be a marginal hold, the fall in liquidity in and of itself justifies a sale. The complicated story behind this loan always had the potential to surface and frighten the traders. For which reason, I haven't been in this loan for some months. I agree that the fundamentals of the loan still look OK. But I would prefer to hold loans where the fundamentals look OK and I can exit should I so wish.
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