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Post by Wisealpha on May 25, 2017 13:21:36 GMT
Dear All, We’ve added Aston Martin bonds to the WiseAlpha market. Aston Martin 5.75% Senior secured bonds maturing April 2022
• Aston Martin is an iconic British manufacturer of luxury sports cars founded in 1913 • 2016 Revenue and EBITDA (profit) growth of 16.3% and 42.3% • 2017 Management guidance is for Revenue growth of between 32-37% and EBITDA (profit) growth of 58-63% Further detail is available here: www.wisealpha.com/loan/detail/39/astonCapital at Risk. |
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macq
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Post by macq on May 31, 2017 16:26:36 GMT
if i admit i am not as clever as James Bond  can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM? Also you have mentioned a secondary market before but have you launched it yet? |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 31, 2017 19:37:27 GMT
AIUI... (and I'm very willing to be corrected... This is almost a test to see if I understand it right!)
Face value is £500. You pay £1 for each £1 of debt the company owes you.
If the market price is 90p for each £1 of debt, then you pay £450 for them to owe you £500.
If the market price is £1.10 for each £1, then you pay £550 for them to owe you £500.
When it redeems, you get £500 back, plus the interest.
If it pays you £50 interest in the year between now and the due payback date, then you've received back a total of £550 - 10% coupon.
If you paid £450 to get £550 back - you got 22.2% YTM.
If you paid £550 to get £550 back - you got 0% YTM.
If that £50 interest takes two years, then that's 5% coupon, and 11.1% or 0% YTM.
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macq
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Post by macq on May 31, 2017 20:54:44 GMT
Thanks that's a big help-so would assume that if WiseAlpha have bonds above par which they do,but the fact that they show YTM of say 5% or 6.75% for example on the bonds means you should not make a loss or why else would you buy the bonds at a premium?
Have been using investment trusts for over 20 years & had people tell me that with discounts & premiums they are complicated but i tend to ignore that as i am just looking for hopefully a gain over what i paid for the share i.e s***t**h M**t***e trust is on a 3% premium but up over 50% on the year and that's all i am worried about.
So as long as i can not make a loss on the principal that i invest but would accept that the yield may change i would be happy to invest on WiseAlpha as an invest an forget choice,
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 31, 2017 21:01:49 GMT
So as long as i can not make a loss on the principal that i invest... Oh, you can... The company may go south, for a start...
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on May 31, 2017 21:21:45 GMT
if i admit i am not as clever as James Bond can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM? Also you have mentioned a secondary market before but have you launched it yet? The secondary market is up an running. When it was beta you had to ask for it to apply to your account, I am not sure if that is still the case. The SM is relatively liquid (and becoming more so all the time) compared with other p2p sites and importantly (I may need to be corrected on this) you continue to receive interest whilst waiting to sell your units- a major advantage over other sites I use.
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macq
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Post by macq on May 31, 2017 21:25:30 GMT
fair point -i had accepted that but its the buying at a premium and the yield not covering it that i was a bit worried about.Hopefully its a bit like buying on the SM on some P2P sites where you buy at a premium and lose a little bit of the interest in doing so.Where with the bonds you lose some of the current yield/ YTM as per your example i guess?
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on May 31, 2017 21:29:52 GMT
if i admit i am not as clever as James Bond can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM? Also you have mentioned a secondary market before but have you launched it yet? The secondary market is up an running. When it was beta you had to ask for it to apply to your account, I am not sure if that is still the case. The SM is relatively liquid (and becoming more so all the time) compared with other p2p sites and importantly (I may need to be corrected on this) you continue to receive interest whilst waiting to sell your units- a major advantage over other sites I use. thanks now i just need to get my head round the main market  but can not see the SM on the market page or do you need to be an investor first?
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Post by kazamx on Jun 1, 2017 18:13:37 GMT
if i admit i am not as clever as James Bond can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM? Also you have mentioned a secondary market before but have you launched it yet? I found the following really handy www.investopedia.com/terms/y/yieldtomaturity.asp
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on Jun 1, 2017 18:38:58 GMT
if i admit i am not as clever as James Bond can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM? Also you have mentioned a secondary market before but have you launched it yet? I found the following really handy www.investopedia.com/terms/y/yieldtomaturity.aspthanks that's helped  -Have been equating it in my mind to the buying of a loan on a P2P platform's SM at a premium and losing some of the interest but still getting a good rate to compensate ,otherwise why would you buy above par?.Think i am getting closer to trying but will look up some of the reviews first
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Post by kazamx on Jun 2, 2017 16:42:01 GMT
I have only put in £500 so far spread over 5 bonds. Everything went through straight away without any problems. I have only been in for a couple of weeks so I have no idea if its a good idea or not, but it sounded interesting so I gave it a go. There seems to be a bit of momentum building at the moment between the whole P2P marketplace growing and the Cubebase funding round. My main concern is what happens if WiseAlpha goes under? Anyone any idea what the odds are of me getting anything back? A lot of info can be found at www.reddit.com/r/wisealphaAlso don't forget to use someone's referral code before you sign up. I believe you both get something if you do (not putting mine here so you don't think I am just saying that to get you to use mine) |
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 2, 2017 21:24:25 GMT
Wisealpha say pretty much the same as any other P2P company,in that if they go under they have a system in place to sort it out and take over the running of the loans.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 3, 2017 8:49:57 GMT
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 3, 2017 11:12:16 GMT
there's still that 1% of me that does not trust everything i am told,which was why i subconsciously phrased it that way but thanks for link |
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Post by Wisealpha on Jun 5, 2017 17:14:26 GMT
Hi Guys,
It's pretty much the same concept as buying a loan at a premium on a P2P platform (i.e. you're effectively giving up some of the return from the annual interest coupons). So if you pay 105% in price (e.g.£1.05 for each £1 of face value of the bond) then the company still only owes you £1 back so you have to think it is worthwhile that the sum of all the interest coupons is worth losing the extra premium you pay i.e. £0.05p. The Yield to maturity is an expected return after taking that extra premium (or discount) into account. So if you remember Matalan had approx a 15% discount so you get a higher return than just the basic coupon. Obviously you still have to monitor that the company is going to pay back the £1 but in our opinion there is less risk than with an unsecured small business loan.
In terms of the secondary market it is gradually increasing in liquidity and so far everyone who has wanted to sell has been able to quickly. As we grow faster we'll also be increasing our own capability to provide liquidity in case other users don't provide it. Once you open an account and invest we can set you up on the secondary market (at that point you can see a sell button on the market for the bonds you hold).
We have a process in place if WiseAlpha Technologies (the marketplace) folds whereby the assets (i.e. the bonds) are held separately and so can be run off or sold depending on what investors decide to do so it's really mainly the inconvenience that is the issue if WiseAlpha Technologies has problems. So it's equity holders not platform investors that take the the capital risk.
Hope that helps guys. And you should see the platform go from strength to strength once our equity raise is completed.
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can you pleases answer this question.I can see the coupon,current yield & YTM for Aston Martin but if invest say £500 and its trading at above or below par when i buy, if i hold for the full term do i get my full £500 back? or is more like a share and i could buy high and then may be sell low at maturity? I.e does the market price matter when i buy or does it only effect the yield and or trade of the loan on the SM?
but can not see the SM on the market page or do you need to be an investor first?
-Have been equating it in my mind to the buying of a loan on a P2P platform's SM at a premium and losing some of the interest but still getting a good rate to compensate ,otherwise why would you buy above par?.Think i am getting closer to trying but will look up some of the reviews first