rs
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Post by rs on Jul 3, 2017 22:24:58 GMT
And as per an earlier update the partial proceeds are in the Client account, not FS's company account so I'm not sure we need to stir up the hornets nest quite yet? I believe Whitehaven is the place where investors are buzzing with indignation at the moment. That one paints a far more concerning picture than these train loans where it would be counter-productive to flood the market. i see FS will have some lost capital and interest for the train memorabilia. Wonder what the borrowers did with all that cash.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 3, 2017 22:31:52 GMT
Wonder what the borrowers did with all that cash. Is that any concern of ours? This isn't a development loan, so the borrower is free to do whatever they like with the money. FS's concern -- and ours -- is that the value of the security is sufficient that it can be liquidated for enough to cover the outstanding debt.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 3, 2017 22:54:07 GMT
i see FS will have some lost capital and interest for the train memorabilia. : How do you know that? All I can see is that FS have said a couple pieces of memorabilia have been sold and investors have been repaid the capital and interest associated with those pieces. What fundingsecure have not said, AFAIK, is exactly how much those pieces were sold for. If they sold for more than was repaid to investors, then there should be a bit of a surplus that could be put toward any future shortfalls on other pieces for sale. If they sold for less than what was distributed, then FS would have had to dig into their own pocket to make those payouts. (That wouldn't be unprecedented.) And what about the interest/fees owed to FS? Did the sales produce enough to cover those? Or did FS defer the payment of those? I'm not an investor in either of those loans. Did FS send a message to investors that provided more info about the sale results?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jul 3, 2017 23:04:31 GMT
i see FS will have some lost capital and interest for the train memorabilia. : How do you know that? All I can see is that FS have said a couple pieces of memorabilia have been sold and investors have been repaid the capital and interest associated with those pieces. What fundingsecure have not said, AFAIK, is exactly how much those pieces were sold for. If they sold for more than was repaid to investors, then there should be a bit of a surplus that could be put toward any future shortfalls on other pieces for sale. If they sold for less than what was distributed, then FS would have had to dig into their own pocket to make those payouts. (That wouldn't be unprecedented.) And what about the interest/fees owed to FS? Did the sales produce enough to cover those? Or did FS defer the payment of those? I'm not an investor in either of those loans. Did FS send a message to investors that provided more info about the sale results? They just said "One of your investments has been split into multiple parts. This usually happens if a borrower has paid part of their loan back. You can check the details by signing into your account on our website."
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jul 3, 2017 23:07:29 GMT
i see FS will have some lost capital and interest for the train memorabilia. : How do you know that? All I can see is that FS have said a couple pieces of memorabilia have been sold and investors have been repaid the capital and interest associated with those pieces. What fundingsecure have not said, AFAIK, is exactly how much those pieces were sold for. If they sold for more than was repaid to investors, then there should be a bit of a surplus that could be put toward any future shortfalls on other pieces for sale. If they sold for less than what was distributed, then FS would have had to dig into their own pocket to make those payouts. (That wouldn't be unprecedented.) And what about the interest/fees owed to FS? Did the sales produce enough to cover those? Or did FS defer the payment of those? I'm not an investor in either of those loans. Did FS send a message to investors that provided more info about the sale results? on 8087670443: "One of the assets has been sold. We are therefore going to split the loan in order that we can repay the relevant portion of the loan that was sold. The item sold was a pair of 0 gauge coaches valued at £1,000. As this represents 3.5% of the assets, the loan will be paid down by £680 together with all interest to-date. This will leave the loan for £19,320 against assets valued at £27,580, so the LTV remains at the same level of 70%." So quite detailed. Haven't checked the others. Sold most of what I had last week.
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Post by df on Jul 4, 2017 1:23:24 GMT
rs : How do you know that? All I can see is that FS have said a couple pieces of memorabilia have been sold and investors have been repaid the capital and interest associated with those pieces. What fundingsecure have not said, AFAIK, is exactly how much those pieces were sold for. If they sold for more than was repaid to investors, then there should be a bit of a surplus that could be put toward any future shortfalls on other pieces for sale. If they sold for less than what was distributed, then FS would have had to dig into their own pocket to make those payouts. (That wouldn't be unprecedented.) And what about the interest/fees owed to FS? Did the sales produce enough to cover those? Or did FS defer the payment of those? I'm not an investor in either of those loans. Did FS send a message to investors that provided more info about the sale results? on 8087670443: "One of the assets has been sold. We are therefore going to split the loan in order that we can repay the relevant portion of the loan that was sold. The item sold was a pair of 0 gauge coaches valued at £1,000. As this represents 3.5% of the assets, the loan will be paid down by £680 together with all interest to-date. This will leave the loan for £19,320 against assets valued at £27,580, so the LTV remains at the same level of 70%." So quite detailed. Haven't checked the others. Sold most of what I had last week. 8087670443 is an early repayment, this one is due on 29th july. The other one that is overdue was partially repaid yesterday in a slightly larger proportion 1411250582. Very impressive, much better than SS's progress on selling castles.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jul 4, 2017 10:22:00 GMT
And as per an earlier update the partial proceeds are in the Client account, not FS's company account so I'm not sure we need to stir up the hornets nest quite yet? I believe Whitehaven is the place where investors are buzzing with indignation at the moment. That one paints a far more concerning picture than these train loans where it would be counter-productive to flood the market. Does it matter which of the FS accounts the money languishes in when lenders money should be paid into the lenders account for the lender to choose how to further invest it? The money yielded from the sale of an asset must be paid, quickly, to the lenders in the loan that the asset backed. To hold the money for so long since the first sale is wrong of FS unless they pay out the extra interest. I will be writing, again, to FS to press for a full list to be given to lenders in the distressed borrowers multiple loans by Friday. If I get a meaningful response I will post it on this thread.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 4, 2017 15:16:22 GMT
I will be writing, again, to FS to press for a full list to be given to lenders in the distressed borrowers multiple loans by Friday. If I get a meaningful response I will post it on this thread. do seem to be progressing in the right direction. For 1415667110 they have shown the sold items in the repaid 'A' part of the loan, and the list of remaining items is shown in the unredeemed 'non-A' part of the loan. I haven't looked to see whether they've updated the other partially repaid loans in the same way -- I didn't invest in those. And I haven't a clue whether there are other items that have been sold from other loans where the proceeds haven't been distributed yet. ISTM that we should be giving FS a bit of slack here, because their system probably wasn't built with this circumstance in mind, so I expect they have had to do a bit of system development work to enable them to deal with these partially repaid loans. Now that they have the ability, they seem to be using it appropriately, so all we need from them now is an indication whether all the sale proceeds have been distributed now. Or, if not, when they expect to finish the job.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jul 4, 2017 16:17:06 GMT
I will be writing, again, to FS to press for a full list to be given to lenders in the distressed borrowers multiple loans by Friday. If I get a meaningful response I will post it on this thread. do seem to be progressing in the right direction. For 1415667110 they have shown the sold items in the repaid 'A' part of the loan, and the list of remaining items is shown in the unredeemed 'non-A' part of the loan. I haven't looked to see whether they've updated the other partially repaid loans in the same way -- I didn't invest in those. And I haven't a clue whether there are other items that have been sold from other loans where the proceeds haven't been distributed yet. ISTM that we should be giving FS a bit of slack here, because their system probably wasn't built with this circumstance in mind, so I expect they have had to do a bit of system development work to enable them to deal with these partially repaid loans. Now that they have the ability, they seem to be using it appropriately, so all we need from them now is an indication whether all the sale proceeds have been distributed now. Or, if not, when they expect to finish the job. yes FS are moving in the right direction by repaying something. Problem is that they started selling in early May, according to updates. We have not been given a list of asset numbers that have been sold and for what value. This means we are in the dark about what is being held and what proportion belongs to lenders and what the borrowers dues pot stands at or how that money will be used. The FS system has the relationship between loan and asset number already assigned. No programming required. Asset sells --》money paid back to loan lenders including interest. As for cutting them some slack, no, imho they gave up that right when they allowed continued renewals for this borrowers multiple loans without doing much, if any, more due dilligence. There continued refusal to furnish lenders with full details, as already stated, will not lead to any slack from this lender. As soon as that list is made available, and is kept up to date, along with a clear definition of disbursement rules then I may become content. Given FS past performance I can not see that happening anytime soon.
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Post by sannytwist on Jul 4, 2017 17:16:01 GMT
fundingsecure do seem to be progressing in the right direction. For 1415667110 they have shown the sold items in the repaid 'A' part of the loan, and the list of remaining items is shown in the unredeemed 'non-A' part of the loan. I haven't looked to see whether they've updated the other partially repaid loans in the same way -- I didn't invest in those. And I haven't a clue whether there are other items that have been sold from other loans where the proceeds haven't been distributed yet. ISTM that we should be giving FS a bit of slack here, because their system probably wasn't built with this circumstance in mind, so I expect they have had to do a bit of system development work to enable them to deal with these partially repaid loans. Now that they have the ability, they seem to be using it appropriately, so all we need from them now is an indication whether all the sale proceeds have been distributed now. Or, if not, when they expect to finish the job. yes FS are moving in the right direction by repaying something. Problem is that they started selling in early May, according to updates. We have not been given a list of asset numbers that have been sold and for what value. This means we are in the dark about what is being held and what proportion belongs to lenders and what the borrowers dues pot stands at or how that money will be used. The FS system has the relationship between loan and asset number already assigned. No programming required. Asset sells --》money paid back to loan lenders including interest. As for cutting them some slack, no, imho they gave up that right when they allowed continued renewals for this borrowers multiple loans without doing much, if any, more due dilligence. There continued refusal to furnish lenders with full details, as already stated, will not lead to any slack from this lender. As soon as that list is made available, and is kept up to date, along with a clear definition of disbursement rules then I may become content. Given FS past performance I can not see that happening anytime soon. Totally agree with Stub on the following points made. Very precise and sums up the problems leading to me taking my money/business elsewhere.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 4, 2017 19:09:20 GMT
...all we need from them now is an indication whether all the sale proceeds have been distributed now. Or, if not, when they expect to finish the job. yes FS are moving in the right direction by repaying something. Problem is that they started selling in early May, according to updates. We have not been given a list of asset numbers that have been sold and for what value. This means we are in the dark about what is being held and what proportion belongs to lenders and what the borrowers dues pot stands at or how that money will be used. I accept that the above is the issue. If fundingsecure were more transparent, and we knew what items have been sold that they're still holding the proceeds for, we would know how big the issue really is. It might be significant, or it might be none at all, and we might or might not have something to complain about. The problem is we just don't know! My own guess is that the market for these items is very thin and they just don't sell easily. And FS really don't want to dispose of them at 'fire sale' prices because it would mean significant losses for them and their investors.
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Jul 4, 2017 23:15:15 GMT
There is a specialist auction for model trains etc with Astons of the West Midlands on 13th July. I would expect some of these items to be in that sale.
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Post by peerlessperil on Jul 5, 2017 6:50:47 GMT
Whilst there are other episodes where FS makes me wonder whether to exit the platform, these train models/memorabilia aren't one of them.
FS job here is to liquidate the assets for the maximum proceeds, which may take time given it is a specialist market and there is a lot to sell. They sensibly tried to sell them as a job lot, but that didn't work - they now need to feed the items through auctions, and it is nobody's interests for them to advertise just how over-supplied the market might be by listing out every item that still needs to be sold. If every item HAS to be sold then bidders will know the reserves will be very low. When playing poker you don't wave your cards around.
FS always declared the long list of loans to this borrower, we could see the renewals accumulating and it was obvious that any recovery would take time if it came to that.
The loans are still listed as live, so I believe interest is still accruing even if funds are in the Client account. These are bridging loans and we all know the maturity dates are as reliable as a southern rail timetable. You can't earn 13% and expect to always arrive on time.
However, if you're invested in Whitehaven then it is looking like FS do have some explaining to do....
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jul 5, 2017 9:52:39 GMT
There is a specialist auction for model trains etc with Astons of the West Midlands on 13th July. I would expect some of these items to be in that sale. Can't see any listed in either July sale catalogues yet.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 5, 2017 10:12:01 GMT
The loans are still listed as live, so I believe interest is still accruing even if funds are in the Client account. These are bridging loans and we all know the maturity dates are as reliable as a southern rail timetable. You can't earn 13% and expect to always arrive on time. Interest might, or might not, be accruing. IIRC, there have been situations in the past where an unredeemed item has been sold and fundingsecure stopped interest accruing to investors as of the date of the sale despite the proceeds not having been paid out to investors until some time later. This is another situation where we just can't know what is really happening without further input from FS, and that does seem to be in short supply here. Even if interest is accruing, however, the longer the sale process drags on, the harder it will be to achieve full recovery. A loan may start out at 70% LTV, but when it matures six months later the LTV will be closer to 80% because of accrued interest and fees. And when the loan becomes months overdue, as some of these loans are, the LTV starts approaching 90%, leaving little scope for full recovery after the costs of sale and the discounts required in order to achieve a prompt sale are included. In short, interest accruing is worth nothing if it can't be realised by selling the asset. To be fair, though, it isn't easy to balance the benefits of a quick liquidation against the discounts required to achieve that -- especially while trying to be fair to both borrower and investor. I wouldn't want to be in FS's shoes at this time.
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