moogman
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Post by moogman on Jun 15, 2017 16:28:35 GMT
I'm curious to hear who has considered or employed arbitrage/stoozing/leverage. Examples: * Borrowing from one P2P at $lowrate, and investing the capital in another P2P at $higherrate. * Using 0% card credit or loan credit and investing the capital in P2P. * Re-mortgaging and using the capital in P2P. etc...
Apologies for munging the various options into one poll - Trying to get a good feel for what people are up to.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 15, 2017 17:03:56 GMT
Yes, LOTS!
CC roughly pay 0-2%/yr and make 9.6% after tax. CC have the advantage of a fixed rate (normally a BT fee) over a set period, much like P2P
Was repaying mortgages a year or so ago, but as interest rates dropped for mortgages, switched to nabbing back over payments where could, taking payment holidays where couldn't and investing it. Mortgage over payments saved me 4-5% interest, investing in P2P roughly double that
Plenty of people on here will tell you its "very risky", yet are happy to take the risk in investing in P2P
To me its just a case of "managing" your debt well. Plenty of Banks have been effectively borrowing money at low rates and lending it it out at higher rates for centuries. I treat it as a business, if I can make a reasonable profit within reasonable boundaries of risk, why not. I would invest in P2P with my own money anyway, in fact I feel I have got quite good at it! I cant normally expand on that past the limits of my own available funds, so why not expand on that and use the banks money.
It might come easier to me as I have been managing large amounts debt through multiple property investments for over a decade, so I have been making money on the banks money for some time!
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Post by valuehunter on Jun 15, 2017 17:04:41 GMT
I've been stoozing for a few years now. I use credit cards for everyday spending, once the 0% on purchases intro offer is up I do a balance transfer which in the current climate are 0% for 2+ years with some companies. I've made low four figures from interest on borrowed money...well worth looking in to if you're not currently doing it!
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will
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Post by will on Jun 16, 2017 7:58:16 GMT
What are the cheapest P2P platforms to borrow money from to reinvest?
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nick
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Post by nick on Jun 16, 2017 8:24:19 GMT
For the very short term, you can make debit card deposits on to platforms which take 1-2 working days before hitting your bank account by which time I have funded any deficit. You can thus effectively utilise your overdraft facility without incurring any o/d fees/interest (your bank will typically only allow a debit card payment if you have the capacity, ie cash + o/d facility, to make the payment, but the transaction isn't recorded and valued on your account until 1-2 business days post transaction. I normally use this to help shuffle money around platforms and stay fully invested, but it has the added benefit of earning interest on my o/d facilities at no funding cost so can be viewed as an extreme example of stoozing......
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 16, 2017 9:55:36 GMT
What are the cheapest P2P platforms to borrow money from to reinvest? You are only considering the headline rate. As a general principle the higher the interest rate the higher the default rate. If p2p were a "proper" efficient and much larger market then economic theory says that on average the net rate received after defaults should be the same regardless of the headline rate.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Jun 17, 2017 1:34:57 GMT
Some of my P2P cash came from replacing my FTSE100 tracker funds with bets on the FTSE100. This makes my FTSE100 investing tax free and the sale of the tracker funds released cash for investing in P2P. Complicated to manage and not for the faint hearted as each pound released for P2P is effectively being put at risk twice. Once in the stock market bet and once in P2P.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 17, 2017 8:19:21 GMT
Some of my P2P cash came from replacing my FTSE100 tracker funds with bets on the FTSE100. This makes my FTSE100 investing tax free and the sale of the tracker funds released cash for investing in P2P. Complicated to manage and not for the faint hearted as each pound released for P2P is effectively being put at risk twice. Once in the stock market bet and once in P2P. Options? What strategy have you gone for?
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david42
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Post by david42 on Jun 17, 2017 19:30:22 GMT
Some of my P2P cash came from replacing my FTSE100 tracker funds with bets on the FTSE100. This makes my FTSE100 investing tax free and the sale of the tracker funds released cash for investing in P2P. Complicated to manage and not for the faint hearted as each pound released for P2P is effectively being put at risk twice. Once in the stock market bet and once in P2P. Options? What strategy have you gone for? Approach I sold my FTSE100 exchange traded funds. I keep 20% of the cash released to cover margin calls and invest the remaining 80% in P2P. To get the equivalent FTSE100 exposure, every three months I place an up bet on the FTSE100 future for the next three months, and I place an up bet on a cheap put option to protect against market falls exceeding 20%. I use IG Index. Cost and benefit For example this June I placed an up bet on the September FTSE100 future at 7437 points. So for a £1 per point bet I would make or lose £1 for each point the FTSE is above or below 7437 points on 15 September 2017. The bookmaker charges a 4 point (£4) spread. To protect against crashes I placed an up bet on a September put option at 6200 points for a price of 11.3 points (£11.30). Total cost 11.3+4=15.3 points (£15.30) for this quarter =0.2% of 7437 repeated 4 times a year =0.8% pa. In return for that 0.8% pa cost I get the dividends tax free (reflected as a discount in the price of the future), there is no capital gains tax to pay, and 80% of the cash is available for investment in P2P. Complications I need to keep enough liquid cash to fund margin calls in case the market falls to 6200 before September. (Falls below 6200 would be funded by the PUT option). In September I will need to re-adjust the 20% cash reserve ready for the next quarter. I am assuming that I can release enough P2P cash to fund the quarterly cash re-adjustment should the FTSE fall. Following the flooding of the Lendy secondary market I am moving this cash reserve to other platforms as quickly as I can. Experience I have only been using this approach for about 18 months. The cash rebalancing got quite expensive in the Jan 2016 market falls, but it has not yet triggered the put option. Other markets I use the same approach for the US S&P500 index. But I still use exchange traded funds to get my exposure to other markets because the bid / offer spread on other instruments is nearer a prohibitive 1% every quarter.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 17, 2017 22:09:00 GMT
For the very short term, you can make debit card deposits on to platforms which take 1-2 working days before hitting your bank account by which time I have funded any deficit. You can thus effectively utilise your overdraft facility without incurring any o/d fees/interest (your bank will typically only allow a debit card payment if you have the capacity, ie cash + o/d facility, to make the payment, but the transaction isn't recorded and valued on your account until 1-2 business days post transaction. I normally use this to help shuffle money around platforms and stay fully invested, but it has the added benefit of earning interest on my o/d facilities at no funding cost so can be viewed as an extreme example of stoozing...... I need to speak to bank about an overdraft facility then!
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Post by elephantrosie on Jun 25, 2017 9:05:19 GMT
my brother did and he earned a handsome sum of money from it.
i personally dont.
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Jun 25, 2017 11:31:37 GMT
I am using 0% credit card balance transfers very profitably. I have several and am using one to pay off the other when due and vice versa etc. I still have an above average credit rating according to Experian which means I am having no trouble perpetuating this route for my cash.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 25, 2017 13:52:48 GMT
I am using 0% credit card balance transfers very profitably. I have several and am using one to pay off the other when due and vice versa etc. I still have an above average credit rating according to Experian which means I am having no trouble perpetuating this route for my cash. Ditto.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Jun 26, 2017 5:55:10 GMT
I do not necessarily agree with credit card/loan/mortgage borrowing for investing into P2P due to potential risk BUT if new to this forum please make sure that you diversify especially over a number of platforms to ensure potential of getting cash back when required is made easier. Possibly put say 5/10% of balance in a lower paying P2P account but has quick access.
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