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Post by ablrate on Jun 16, 2017 12:37:41 GMT
Fair enough. don't think you will get an invite for the first "jolly boys outing" There is an open invite for our ozzy friend...
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 16, 2017 12:43:03 GMT
Would be great to motor this gin palace down to Cowes and *moon the Lendy Lot. (* Love this country, so polite & quaint, we use a much baser, descriptive term down-under)
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Post by peerlessperil on Jun 16, 2017 12:58:54 GMT
So... - You can find the yacht advertised online - euro 690,000 (NB: Ablrate says 700k as cost to acquire, i.e. inc acquisition costs?)
- There seem to be quite a few listings for Leopard 27s as comparators, so valuation not a complete shot in the dark
- Age of boat means depreciation curve should hopefully be past the really steep bit.
- Director is identifiable, even if already known to some investors
It's quite an education in running costs, but given the amortising loan means you are only exposed to the residual value on default this doesn't strike me as the worst I've seen for 14%.
Boat loans for me are a bit like Warren Buffet & his airlines - you rule it out, but then along comes another one....
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 16, 2017 13:47:03 GMT
It's quite an education in running costs, Yes, my first thought was "crikey, expensive hobby"!
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 16, 2017 14:01:58 GMT
My second thought was "this is just like Eddie Stobart buying a lorry on HP, if the security is good, and the return is good, what's the problem with it".
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 16, 2017 14:12:28 GMT
The thing that troubles me a little is the fact that the valuation has been made for another person a few months ago, and presumably the valuer has no responsibility towards Ablrate lenders. Presumably we are saving the cost here and losing the ownership of the valuation, as we seem to do elsewhere. I am not suggesting any problem with the valuation itself. The person for whom the valuation is made seems to have no declared role in this SPV, but has a direct role, unless an extraordinary co-incidence of names, with other entertaining Ablrate loans. How and why is that person involved and does it link the risk in this loan to any other Ablrate loan (we know only one shareholder)? Otherwise this loan seems to be nicely independent of others.
Edit: OK I have now seen the other question and looked at disclosures on p.11. and the second point is answered. I will leave this up for the first. The valuer is presumably accountable to one shareholder for his personal interest, not to Ablrate lenders.
Being the only person responsible for the valuation on which the LTV is based is a non-trivial role, imo.
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Post by elephantrosie on Jun 16, 2017 17:25:28 GMT
what other loans on ablrate is this particular borrower on?
how about other platforms?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 16, 2017 19:03:42 GMT
My sentiments exactly, living the high life on Credit. I'm out. The Platforms must loathe this site, but I suppose the upside is that there's always plenty of lemmings to replace us if the Loan doesn't float. (Sorry, couldn't help it!) Everyone is entitled to their opinion... so its not an issue... I just wish that people would be more fact and less opinion. Describing investors who are in this loan as 'Lemmings' is not really helpful, adds nothing to the discussion and frankly is a little insulting to them.. The loan and security is what lending in this space is about. 14% amortising, 71% LTV, against an asset depreciating at a much, much lower rate with a PG (not AH) worth over £1mn also... and the group companies in which AH is involved have never missed a payment on any loan, AND we have security in the multiples of loan values against those loans.. Like I say, happy with all feedback,.. but let's keep it sensible. Well I happen to like the loan even though I am sworn off boats. Completely agree it's about the security rather than the borrower, unless like another massive P2P site which shall remain unamed you lend to a crook conman on a very dodgy valuation on an office block.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 17, 2017 14:18:08 GMT
ablrate-is there a reason why only one of the shareholders have given a PG? Would it be possible to receive a PG from all shareholders to increase security? -should one of the shareholders wish to leave the SPV, would there be an allowance to change the shareholder during the term? -could funds from any rental be paid directly to AB to ensure any income streams of the SPV are used to pay off the loan? -how will AB ensure the maintenance of the vessel and will there be regular inspections (I don't mean parties ...unless we are invited too!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 19:32:10 GMT
Presently on Italian Riviera, place is full of these yachts with even more filling up slipwaysdry docks,. In 2007 you could not give them away and even now could rent for $35k/week with crew. If the market twitches it will be unsaleable and it costs a lot to be sale/rent ready.
Big punt pole
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fp
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Post by fp on Jun 17, 2017 19:36:59 GMT
what other loans on ablrate is this particular borrower on? how about other platforms? Not on my computer, so may have missed something, but with this loan and another which is about to draw down, a tidy £9,393,679 including all current loans/bonds (to my knowledge)
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 17, 2017 20:14:06 GMT
Presently on Italian Riviera, place is full of these yachts with even more filling up slipwaysdry docks,. In 2007 you could not give them away and even now could rent for $35k/week with crew. If the market twitches it will be unsaleable and it costs a lot to be sale/rent ready. Big punt pole 1) you couldn't give anything away in 2007 2) $35k / week, sounds okay 3) Amortising loan so LTV will improve or maintain, so even if it did need to be repossessed and sold at 50% LTV not too bad 4) 14% loans are 14% for a reason!
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 17, 2017 21:56:06 GMT
Presently on Italian Riviera, place is full of these yachts with even more filling up slipwaysdry docks,. In 2007 you could not give them away and even now could rent for $35k/week with crew. If the market twitches it will be unsaleable and it costs a lot to be sale/rent ready. Big punt pole I think the Italian wine might have hindered your evaluation of this 😉 UK is not Italy, supply and demand will vary from country In 2007 property and shares took a nose dive, along with a lot of other investments. P2P in general has not gone through a recession, lots of other P2P loans in different asset classes would likely fail during a recession. For that reason would you barge pole all of them too? This is not a yacht rental business. This is a entrepreneurs play thing, that is helped (but not solely reliant on) the rental
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 17, 2017 22:03:29 GMT
Play nice please.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jun 18, 2017 5:49:41 GMT
Apologies then, no offence meant from my post, I need to sprinkle smiley faces more 😀 so things can be interpreted in the humour it was meant. 99% of the time I agree and gain great insight from @bobo posts, it just happens this rare time I disagreed and tried to present a factual and rational reason why
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