ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 24, 2017 20:11:20 GMT
Been thinking about the Grenfell Tower catastrophe and the mass displacements of families from Tower Blocks up and down the UK because engineers have identified combustible cladding materials at other sites as well. Grieving loved ones and families told to gather their possessions and evacuate to be housed goodness knows where nor for how long. An awful set of circumstances all around. The questions that I have this evening is there any way in which we and our p2p Platforms can bring our collective 'Community' resources to bear and to deliver up to the affected Councils, their engineers and our construction crews the funds that each Council may need to fix the issue quickly so people can return to their homes and sleep safely at night? Could we offer to provide Central/Local Government with funds it/they need in the shape of a National Bond or multiple Council Bonds? Is this doable? Just a few thoughts in return for your own... I applaud the sentiment but seriously the funds available to central govt dwarf what we can raise. The issue is time not funds. The particular case that has involved mass evacuation isnt merely a case of strippin the panels off, which is what a number of effected councils are doing as we speak, but major flaws in the builiding where services have gone through dividing walls and fire doors are defective.
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Post by ablrateandy on Jun 24, 2017 21:06:09 GMT
Ditto with ilmoro re the sentiment. However, local authorities can borrow directly from central government at 80bp over gilts (ie. very low rates) and so steer clear of issuing debt themselves because it isn't cost-effective. Ditto most of the housing associations can borrow at say 100bp over gilts for 30 years. It would be nice to see some forward thinking local councils willing to pay up for more investors...but very few are - they simply look at the cheapest way to borrow money. And on the other side, many investors only chase yield. |
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Jun 24, 2017 22:13:38 GMT
I also agree with magenta14 that the displacement and the devastating impact the sad deaths in Grenfell tower have wrought on the local community.
In the wider picture the government and councils may have resources to dwarf ours but they also have massive calls on those resources that makes money scarce.
If a reasonable local council guaranteed bond was issued with rates that beat the banks in small enough tranches for the little guy to get involved rather than mega sized funds then I would expect plenty of uptake by interest chasing people with cash in the bank.
On the p2p front there are lots of good platforms who have connections that could help speed up the remedy identification and rectification of the affeted buildings alongside councils.
Maybe the p2p trade bodies could ask government if they could help facilitate finding funding for the works.
Unless the offer is made then we won't know.
As for the " lenders in p2p being purely focused in yield" whilst I agree, I do believe their are sufficient numbers that would support a well structured funding round for the betterment of society.
I hope some platforms weigh in with some ideas in the near future.
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 24, 2017 22:16:37 GMT
would agree about investors chasing yield but also that there would be bad publicity from some quarters from people who understandably would not agree with people making a profit and would only want a charity effort.May be something like the old war bonds where there would be a fund built up for future emergencies could work or even a raid on the lottery funds instead of a new arts centre
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 25, 2017 0:12:09 GMT
I would look at this from the other end - I would like all platforms to confirm that all property development loans they are involved in do not have cladding issues and do have sprinklers installed, even if building standards don't require it.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 25, 2017 7:31:21 GMT
I don't understand how this situation has come about.
When I had a canal trip boat business in the 1960s the boats were inspected every year and we had to comply with every changed requirement, each year there was something new which cost more than the business could afford. One year all the windows had to be changed as they were glass, another we had to buy one lifebuouy for every passenger even though a canal is only about 3ft deep and narrower than the boat length.
25 years ago I had a small hotel and again there were regular inspections by the fire service who usually asked for something to be changed because it no longer complied with the latest set of regulations. I would think that a tower block would also come in the same category of a property in multiple occupation, so would have the same inspection requirements.
I am beginning to wonder whether the public sector demands ever more onerous standards from private enterprise but completely fails to apply the same level of compliance to its own activities.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jun 25, 2017 8:19:07 GMT
I don't understand how this situation has come about. When I had a canal trip boat business in the 1960s the boats were inspected every year and we had to comply with every changed requirement, each year there was something new which cost more than the business could afford. One year all the windows had to be changed as they were glass, another we had to buy one lifebuouy for every passenger even though a canal is only about 3ft deep and narrower than the boat length. 25 years ago I had a small hotel and again there were regular inspections by the fire service who usually asked for something to be changed because it no longer complied with the latest set of regulations. I would think that a tower block would also come in the same category of a property in multiple occupation, so would have the same inspection requirements. I am beginning to wonder whether the public sector demands ever more onerous standards from private enterprise but completely fails to apply the same level of compliance to its own activities.I can confirm this from my own experience. No office block this tall would have been allowed without at least 3 fire escapes and numerous other safety features such as sprinklers, 2 hour auto-closing fire doors etc. The basic criteria applied is not the degree of risk but the perceived wealth of the developer.
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jun 25, 2017 8:22:42 GMT
Sentiment spot on; but really not needed for two reasons;
Firstly, councils can borrow VERY cheaply from the Public Works Loan Board; and
Secondly, most councils are sitting on huge balances which they are traditionally reluctant to use to bolster ongoing revenue expenditure. The one-off nature of these remedial works are precisely the kind of costs that these balances would cover.
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 25, 2017 8:52:30 GMT
I don't understand how this situation has come about. When I had a canal trip boat business in the 1960s the boats were inspected every year and we had to comply with every changed requirement, each year there was something new which cost more than the business could afford. One year all the windows had to be changed as they were glass, another we had to buy one lifebuouy for every passenger even though a canal is only about 3ft deep and narrower than the boat length. 25 years ago I had a small hotel and again there were regular inspections by the fire service who usually asked for something to be changed because it no longer complied with the latest set of regulations. I would think that a tower block would also come in the same category of a property in multiple occupation, so would have the same inspection requirements. I am beginning to wonder whether the public sector demands ever more onerous standards from private enterprise but completely fails to apply the same level of compliance to its own activities. May or may not be true but i was told by a surveyor not that long ago,that my council in London do not employ as many building inspectors & planning officers as they once did due to cost cutting in the last financial crisis .And with most of the work being subbed out you wonder what checks are carried out on that work.He also said at the time of these cuts some rules like for loft extensions etc. were relaxed so they had less work to check.Would guess the fire service do check tower blocks like they do hotels but if there is no one employed to enforce the rules between checks like you would have with an hotel manager it will not help.
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