jjc
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Post by jjc on Jul 18, 2017 15:05:22 GMT
A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination.
Plenty of things to consider (if you look for them). Perhaps my biggest concern is that this is a big project that, from the little information we have to hand, offers us no visibility as to how it will come to fruition.
2.7m full MT facility + (presumed, if 1.8m purchase price) 420k borrower injection (presumed, might be more borrowed money?) = 3.12m funds available. 1.8m cost to buy site + 610k funding costs (if 18%, T1 for 6M, full facility for further 12M) means just 700k net available to spend, ie not enough for even half the 1.75m infrastructure costs, let alone any lodges (or even their bases).
Assuming 13k for base & 75k for lodge there’s a £40m (m not k) at least (exc costs of finance etc) shortfall in what is needed to build out the site. Makes that possibly the biggest p2p project I’ve seen, & no idea how it’s going to get there but seems few have noticed?
Plenty of other potential issues, deal’s history, planning, the borrower, the site’s topography & council’s conditions etc won’t bore you with the details, but without even going there you might first ask yourself if the deal stacks up with what you know.
For me it doesn’t but don’t let that put you off.
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Post by sannytwist on Jul 18, 2017 15:17:57 GMT
A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination.
Plenty of things to consider (if you look for them). Perhaps my biggest concern is that this is a big project that, from the little information we have to hand, offers us no visibility as to how it will come to fruition. 2.7m full MT facility + (presumed, if 1.8m purchase price) 420k borrower injection (presumed, might be more borrowed money?) = 3.12m funds available. 1.8m cost to buy site + 610k funding costs (if 18%, T1 for 6M, full facility for further 12M) means just 700k net available to spend, ie not enough for even half the 1.75m infrastructure costs, let alone any lodges (or even their bases). Assuming 13k for base & 75k for lodge there’s a £40m (m not k) at least (exc costs of finance etc) shortfall in what is needed to build out the site. Makes that possibly the biggest p2p project I’ve seen, & no idea how it’s going to get there but seems few have noticed? Plenty of other potential issues, deal’s history, planning, the borrower, the site’s topography & council’s conditions etc won’t bore you with the details, but without even going there you might first ask yourself if the deal stacks up with what you know. For me it doesn’t but don’t let that put you off. Well said
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 18, 2017 15:23:47 GMT
Seems to be quite popular given the current P2P situation in general. Whats wrong with the p2p situation? explain pls. SM queues on different platforms after some big launches / funds being pulled ahead of economic uncertainty.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,017
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Post by littleoldlady on Jul 18, 2017 16:55:22 GMT
A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination.
Plenty of things to consider (if you look for them). Perhaps my biggest concern is that this is a big project that, from the little information we have to hand, offers us no visibility as to how it will come to fruition. 2.7m full MT facility + (presumed, if 1.8m purchase price) 420k borrower injection (presumed, might be more borrowed money?) = 3.12m funds available. 1.8m cost to buy site + 610k funding costs (if 18%, T1 for 6M, full facility for further 12M) means just 700k net available to spend, ie not enough for even half the 1.75m infrastructure costs, let alone any lodges (or even their bases). Assuming 13k for base & 75k for lodge there’s a £40m (m not k) at least (exc costs of finance etc) shortfall in what is needed to build out the site. Makes that possibly the biggest p2p project I’ve seen, & no idea how it’s going to get there but seems few have noticed? Plenty of other potential issues, deal’s history, planning, the borrower, the site’s topography & council’s conditions etc won’t bore you with the details, but without even going there you might first ask yourself if the deal stacks up with what you know. For me it doesn’t but don’t let that put you off. If anything, a somewhat rosy view. The most disturbing aspect for me is the deafening silence from Ed, who is usually very quick to address concerns. I'm not in it but am following progress as it seems to represent a threat to my overweight portfolio in MT.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Jul 18, 2017 17:20:09 GMT
Well said. Several concerns have been highlighted but Ed is uncharacteristically silent. Shall I read something into that?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 18, 2017 17:29:31 GMT
A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination.
Plenty of things to consider (if you look for them). Perhaps my biggest concern is that this is a big project that, from the little information we have to hand, offers us no visibility as to how it will come to fruition. 2.7m full MT facility + (presumed, if 1.8m purchase price) 420k borrower injection (presumed, might be more borrowed money?) = 3.12m funds available. 1.8m cost to buy site + 610k funding costs (if 18%, T1 for 6M, full facility for further 12M) means just 700k net available to spend, ie not enough for even half the 1.75m infrastructure costs, let alone any lodges (or even their bases). Assuming 13k for base & 75k for lodge there’s a £40m (m not k) at least (exc costs of finance etc) shortfall in what is needed to build out the site. Makes that possibly the biggest p2p project I’ve seen, & no idea how it’s going to get there but seems few have noticed? Plenty of other potential issues, deal’s history, planning, the borrower, the site’s topography & council’s conditions etc won’t bore you with the details, but without even going there you might first ask yourself if the deal stacks up with what you know. For me it doesn’t but don’t let that put you off. Well said lol you won't get away with making up wild assumptions for costs on here. A lodge will cost nowhere near that cost price. Maybe half that all in but probably less given economy of scale They also tend to do these developments in phases, selling units as they go along, then collecting annual site fees forever. If they do it well I am guessing there is a lot of £££££ to be made
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 3,156
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Post by ozboy on Jul 18, 2017 18:13:20 GMT
We all know P2P is invariably a punt, and this is worth a punt, depending as usual on your own personal Risk Appetite.
I expect The Whales are circling?
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am
Posts: 1,495
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Post by am on Jul 18, 2017 19:09:15 GMT
Yes. Well over half funded in 1 day. £771,575 invested so far as I type and only 44% left. A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination. The community has been distracted from looking at the business case and the value of the security for the loan by confusion engendered by the similar company names and especially by trying to make sense of the ABL loan to APF which was to be (but never was) secured on this property.
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GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
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Post by GeorgeT on Jul 18, 2017 20:19:22 GMT
Yes. Well over half funded in 1 day. £771,575 invested so far as I type and only 44% left. A good platform and a good rate + not a great deal of noise from our DD dig and delve colleagues, so it's a winning combination. The community has been distracted from looking at the business case and the value of the security for the loan by confusion engendered by the similar company names and especially by trying to make sense of the ABL loan to APF which was to be (but never was) secured on this property. Well I do not use ABL, it is not one of my platforms so I was blissfully unaware of the history here until some of you guys mentioned it. Therefore it was an easy decision for me to make because it was ticking all my boxes and I plunged in with enthusiasm yesterday and have even sold down a little bit in another loan to top myself up in it today.
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am
Posts: 1,495
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Post by am on Jul 18, 2017 20:26:53 GMT
The community has been distracted from looking at the business case and the value of the security for the loan by confusion engendered by the similar company names and especially by trying to make sense of the ABL loan to APF which was to be (but never was) secured on this property. Well I do not use ABL, it is not one of my platforms so I was blissfully unaware of the history here until some of you guys mentioned it. Therefore it was an easy decision for me to make because it was ticking all my boxes and I plunged in with enthusiasm yesterday and have even sold down a little bit in another loan to top myself up in it today. I don't use ABL either. That doesn't make the existence of the anomaly something that doesn't bear on the decision. In the end as was reasonably confident that the anomaly could be ignored for the purpose of evaluating this loan, but by the time I had worked out what might be going on I was running out of time to look at the loan details.
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bababill
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Post by bababill on Jul 18, 2017 20:31:21 GMT
If they do it well I am guessing there is a lot of £££££ to be made You have hit the nail on the head... exactly right. I don't want to guess. Give me a proper business proposal like I expect in my everyday life; not half baked with names obscured.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jul 18, 2017 21:22:26 GMT
While I'm comfortable with the risk v reward balance on this loan, which has passed my own investment tests, I do think that P2P investing is getting more hair-raising by the month. Even on platforms like MT I'm happy to admit my confidence score isn't as high as it was a year ago.
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elliotn
Member of DD Central
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Post by elliotn on Jul 19, 2017 1:54:45 GMT
The community has been distracted from looking at the business case and the value of the security for the loan by confusion engendered by the similar company names and especially by trying to make sense of the ABL loan to APF which was to be (but never was) secured on this property. Well I do not use ABL, it is not one of my platforms so I was blissfully unaware of the history here until some of you guys mentioned it. Therefore it was an easy decision for me to make because it was ticking all my boxes and I plunged in with enthusiasm yesterday and have even sold down a little bit in another loan to top myself up in it today. sannytwist , we have our Bollington culprit 😎.
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Post by MoneyThing on Jul 19, 2017 10:22:04 GMT
Morning,
Without trying to divulge too much information as to how this is to be carried out (the holiday lodge market is highly competitive).
Phase 1 will enable B******** to raise via two off plan channels: plots and lodges. This would raise a combined forward fund injection of £8.25m. With a proportion of this being raised through lodge sales this would effectively increase the site GAV to c.£17m. We are not in a position at this stage to release full financial information however if you take a look at the domestic holiday investment market, luxury lodges are achieving sales in excess of £200,000 for a 3 bedroom lodge.
With reference to the leisure operator, talks have been ongoing. Upon completion of the acquisition these can then be formally progressed and worked towards agreeing contracts. This operator is European wide and has earmarked the B******** site as they want to increase presence of this brand in the UK holiday market.
More detail will be provided once the site has been acquired and our borrower can move forwards with the project.
Kind regards,
Ed
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Post by MoneyThing on Jul 19, 2017 10:26:53 GMT
...apologies for not being so present on the forum these last few days. Just rushing to catch a ferry now to head home. Back online a bit later.
Regards,
Ed
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