elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 19, 2017 15:41:43 GMT
I'm not sure Collateral is an outlier here.
Abl only send container loan emails to investors.
MT have kept schtum on their first loan in adminstration, even to invested lenders.
Ly only updated those invested (although you could buy 1p for the goss).
Why are we expecting more from Coll when they have just informed us within 1-2 working days that this could be a sensitive criminal/fruad case (as with abl) - or am I missing something?
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jul 19, 2017 15:56:27 GMT
I'm not sure Collateral is an outlier here. Abl only send container loan emails to investors. MT have kept schtum on their first loan in adminstration, even to invested lenders. Ly only updated those invested (although you could buy 1p for the goss). Why are we expecting more from Coll when they have just informed us 1 working day later that this could be a sensitive criminal/fruad case (as with abl) - or am I missing something? You have just actually reinforced my point - ......this could be a sensitive criminal/fruad case....... - I was totally unaware of this until you posted it.
Of course I now immediately start thinking 'which other loans might actually be dodgy' - it's simply human nature - and I won't be alone.
I take your point about the communication (or lack of it to be more precise) from other platforms with respect to defaults - but if lenders were asked to tabulate the most common generic causes of discontent with P2P Platforms I suggest 'a lack of communication' would be quite close to the top.
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guff
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Post by guff on Jul 19, 2017 16:14:33 GMT
There is more chance of non-investors getting some information by e-mailing questions directly to Gordon rather than asking on a public forum where you're not going to be told anything more than has already been made public.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Jul 19, 2017 16:42:00 GMT
There is more chance of non-investors getting some information by e-mailing questions directly to Gordon rather than asking on a public forum where you're not going to be told anything more than has already been made public. My point is that what information has been / is being / will be made available is only being sent to holders of this particular loan - not the whole Col community. That this loan may become a criminal/fraud matter was not made 'public' - I only know this because of a previous post on this forum. As a significant lender to Col such information is clearly a matter of considerable interest and of potentially direct significance to me.
Without facts I can only speculate - and I will invariably err on the side of caution. It's no coincidence that motor loans are suddenly for sale and/or at a discount on multiple platforms.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 19, 2017 16:49:11 GMT
There is more chance of non-investors getting some information by e-mailing questions directly to Gordon rather than asking on a public forum where you're not going to be told anything more than has already been made public. My point is that what information has been / is being / will be made available is only being sent to holders of this particular loan - not the whole Col community. That this loan may become a criminal/fraud matter was not made 'public' - I only know this because of a previous post on this forum. As a significant lender to Col such information is clearly a matter of considerable interest and of potentially direct significance to me.
Without facts I can only speculate - and I will invariably err on the side of caution. It's no coincidence that motor loans are suddenly for sale and/or at a discount on multiple platforms.
All platforms have significant investors. No platform gives public information on possible legal cases to non-investors. Have you used the secondary market?
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jul 19, 2017 17:08:41 GMT
We could always have updates like FS weekly but whats the point as most say nothing that can be relied upon. As for general updates on this loan and lessons learned with corrective actions taken without prejudice to the recovery could be published. However, each message is picked over by conspiracy theorists to come up with outlandishly scary scenarios that bear all the truth that war of the worlds did when first broadcast. Probably, the same people believe et was real.
I feel sure that, where they can, the Collateral team will put out communications to all.
They have already stated that they are changing their system to show the defaulted loans.
Speculation without facts leads to fear. Fear makes people sell. Price and market falls. Panic ensues as everyone discounts to get out. Bottom feeders wait for their moment and make a killing.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jul 19, 2017 17:13:33 GMT
There is more chance of non-investors getting some information by e-mailing questions directly to Gordon rather than asking on a public forum where you're not going to be told anything more than has already been made public. My point is that what information has been / is being / will be made available is only being sent to holders of this particular loan - not the whole Col community. That this loan may become a criminal/fraud matter was not made 'public' - I only know this because of a previous post on this forum. As a significant lender to Col such information is clearly a matter of considerable interest and of potentially direct significance to me.
Without facts I can only speculate - and I will invariably err on the side of caution. It's no coincidence that motor loans are suddenly for sale and/or at a discount on multiple platforms.
It goes without saying that this loan may become a criminal/fraud matter if there turn out to be any issues with the loan security. Until the recovery is complete it will remain a possibility. That is the nature of secured lending. I am in some of these loans and have subsequently topped up my holdings in some of the other motor loans as they have become available on the SM. If the possibility of some of the loans defaulting and causing you to lose money has spooked you, then I respectfully suggest you sell up now while you are fairly well assured of a sale on the SM. NS&I is that way --> Either way, please try to refrain from making speculations that might cause those of us invested in the loans to suffer a financial loss. It would be a shame if sensible discussion had to be shut down here in order to prevent hysteria breaking out. Thanks.
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applets
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Post by applets on Jul 19, 2017 18:06:24 GMT
All platforms have significant investors. No platform gives public information on possible legal cases to non-investors. Have you used the secondary market? elliottm, You may be content to adopt the role of mushroom - but I'm not.
1. Thank you for informing me that all platforms have significant lenders - hadn't thought of that - highly astute of you.
2. I don't want information on this 'possible legal case' - I want to know that Col aren't in any way culpable.
3. My only motor loan is with Abl - last time I looked the bid/offer was 97.3%/98.6% (and good luck with their current new offering).
I can understand why almost everyone on Collateral is desperate for information in case it impacts their loans. However, if Collateral feel that confidentiality is needed in order to obtain the best outcome for those actually involved in the defaulted loans I would hope we can all respect that. If you really feel that you must have an answer immediately, then why not contact Collateral direct as they have suggested?
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jul 19, 2017 18:14:09 GMT
I think there's a general issue here and some misunderstading of the complaint perhaps?
As a non investor in the subject loans I don't expect to receive the detailed regular update reports by email. But ..
Let me use LY as an example because LY is often criticised for poor information and communications.
LY sends ALL investors on the platform a regular update in which they tell everybody on LY platform the state of play with the loans - including where a loan has been defaulted and what steps they are taking to deal, e.g. administrators appointed, putting in auction, court case for possession etc. I have NEVER been in a defaulted loan on LY (or anywhere else) but I have been kept up to date with the broad action plan and circumstances. e.g. here's 2 recent LY updates on default loans on the website in which I have no direct interest -
Also, LY has a very clear 'Default Loans' tab on the website so everybody can see what loans have defaulted and the size of the default loans. It is important in assessing platform risk. None of that information is being made available to COL investors like me. There isn't even a Default Loans link on the website. Anyone new or who doesn't read this forum wouldn't even know they had this problem. I can't see how this can be FCA compliant, let alone fair and transparent. There isn't even a Latest News or Updates section on the website.
On MT, there is a problem with loans and it is clearly stated on the website against the affected loans for all MT investors / prospective investors to read.
I was liking COL and it was my fastest growing platform but all that has stopped because of this. I expect loans to default and when they do, as an active financier / supporter of the platform, I expect to be kept in the picture. Not to, seemingly, have the situation air brushed out of existence. I don't think it's a coincidence that the new 12% + CB loan is only 1.9% filled so far, on it's first day. People like me would normally have swooped on it like a seagull that has spotted some discarded chips, but I'm keeping my wallet shut as regards COL until they start communicating better and making me feel like I matter.
Others may disagree, but that's my view on it.
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applets
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Post by applets on Jul 19, 2017 18:35:45 GMT
I think there's a general issue here and some misunderstading of the complaint perhaps? As a non investor in the subject loans I don't expect to receive the detailed regular update reports by email. But .. Let me use LY as an example because LY is often criticised for poor information and communications. LY sends ALL investors on the platform a regular update in which they tell everybody on LY platform the state of play with the loans - including where a loan has been defaulted and what steps they are taking to deal, e.g. administrators appointed, putting in auction, court case for possession etc. I have NEVER been in a defaulted loan on LY (or anywhere else) but I have been kept up to date with the broad action plan and circumstances. e.g. here's 2 recent LY updates on default loans on the website in which I have no direct interest - Also, LY has a very clear 'Default Loans' tab on the website so everybody can see what loans have defaulted and the size of the default loans. It is important in assessing platform risk. None of that information is being made available to COL investors like me. There isn't even a Default Loans link on the website. Anyone new or who doesn't read this forum wouldn't even know they had this problem. I can't see how this can be FCA compliant, let alone fair and transparent. There isn't even a Latest News or Updates section on the website. On MT, there is a problem with loans and it is clearly stated on the website against the affected loans for all MT investors / prospective investors to read. I was liking COL and it was my fastest growing platform but all that has stopped because of this. I expect loans to default and when they do, as an active financier / supporter of the platform, I expect to be kept in the picture. Not to, seemingly, have the situation air brushed out of existence. I don't think it's a coincidence that the new 12% + CB loan is only 1.9% filled so far, on it's first day. People like me would normally have swooped on it like a seagull that has spotted some discarded chips, but I'm keeping my wallet shut as regards COL until they start communicating better and making me feel like I matter. Others may disagree, but that's my view on it.
I have no experience of LY, but you give the impression that they have had defaults previously. For Collateral, this is the first default and I am sure there are things that could have been done better. They have however acknowledged the need for a default tab and are working to deliver this (albeit not as quick as some investors may like). It may be that LY give updates within a day or two of a default arising, I don't know. But to me, if the priority is to get a handle on the default and to decide/ take action that protects the interests of investors in the defaulted loan, then that perhaps is the better way forward. Collateral did post here yesterday where they were up to with the loan which seems to meet the LY format.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jul 19, 2017 20:44:20 GMT
mason, I am clearly in the presence of a superior intellect - or is it simply a condescending one? Probably both I did not suggest that you have posted anything that would prejudice the recovery yet. I was merely asking you to refrain from doing so. There has already been one instance of material shared with investors in confidence being divulged here in direct response to one of your posts (fortunately nothing of consequence that time), so it seems reasonable to remind you of the possible consequences of digging for further information here. To be honest, I've already mentally written off 100% of my investment. As I am not prepared to speculate at this early stage when so many of the facts are still unknown, I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed. I am satisfied that the correct actions are now being taken and am prepared to give Collateral the benefit of the doubt for now.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 20, 2017 1:44:12 GMT
All platforms have significant investors. No platform gives public information on possible legal cases to non-investors. Have you used the secondary market? elliottm, You may be content to adopt the role of mushroom - but I'm not.
1. Thank you for informing me that all platforms have significant lenders - hadn't thought of that - highly astute of you.
2. I don't want information on this 'possible legal case' - I want to know that Col aren't in any way culpable.
3. My only motor loan is with Abl - last time I looked the bid/offer was 97.3%/98.6% (and good luck with their current new offering).
If you have invested in or followed defaults on other platforms you'll know these must follow due process and most of all take time, especially where the legal system is involved. If you want to make a judgement on Collateral's 'culpability', you have a still strong SM as your first recourse to protect your savings (and a chance both to spend those and test the speed of the legal system should you judge them so at a later date). (I have 1% cap across the loans).
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 20, 2017 11:19:35 GMT
Sarcastic responses, barbed comments, pot stirring and generally unhelpful posts removed. Thread now reopened - further bickering and / or provocation will not be looked on kindly.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 20, 2017 11:32:03 GMT
There is more chance of non-investors getting some information by e-mailing questions directly to Gordon rather than asking on a public forum where you're not going to be told anything more than has already been made public. My point is that what information has been / is being / will be made available is only being sent to holders of this particular loan - not the whole Col community. That this loan may become a criminal/fraud matter was not made 'public' - I only know this because of a previous post on this forum. As a significant lender to Col such information is clearly a matter of considerable interest and of potentially direct significance to me.
Without facts I can only speculate - and I will invariably err on the side of caution. It's no coincidence that motor loans are suddenly for sale and/or at a discount on multiple platforms.
@new2p2p gave, imo, a reasonable synopsis of the current situation (details were vague, possible criminal/fraudulent activity being pursued) - I think we should respect the platform's discretion for now given the highly sensitive natue of the enquiries. A major difference is that I am materially invested in these loans (at a personal, capital level). I took immediate, remedial action through the SM just in case the model for grouped assets were to prove more akin to high risk, SME loans with the potential for protracted security recovery were a bankrupt borrower to act in contravention of the loan security agreements. If the recovery process is proven to be robust (and relatively swift) then I will reinvest in such loans again with greater confidence.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jul 20, 2017 15:56:54 GMT
From the update just now all seems to be being handled well by COLL. That is, ROBUSTLY.Take very good Note certain Other Platforms.
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