ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 18:07:05 GMT
That is a catch 22. FS wouldn't give it back without being paid back and Unb wouldn't provide the money without having the painting. All that would happen then is that FS would hand it over to Unbolted instead of the borrower handing it to unbolted.
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Aug 24, 2017 18:25:46 GMT
That is a catch 22. FS wouldn't give it back without being paid back and Unb wouldn't provide the money without having the painting. All that would happen then is that FS would hand it over to Unbolted instead of the borrower handing it to unbolted. Would that be in a car park in public view ?  Seriously, why would anyone want to lend to this borrower after today ? Regardless of the platform.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 24, 2017 19:16:08 GMT
All that would happen then is that FS would hand it over to Unbolted instead of the borrower handing it to unbolted. Would that be in a car park in public view ? Seriously, why would anyone want to lend to this borrower after today ? Regardless of the platform. Unfortunately most platforms do not take into account the history of the borrower, some have even said its does not matter about the borrowers only the asset, pretty short sighted that when it is obvious that a borrower has taken other lenders for a ride what is going to happen when the loan term expires. Lendy and FS are two prime examples with a few borrowers like this and both have previously said it is only the asset that matters.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 24, 2017 19:24:00 GMT
Would that be in a car park in public view ? Seriously, why would anyone want to lend to this borrower after today ? Regardless of the platform. Unfortunately most platforms do not take into account the history of the borrower, some have even said its does not matter about the borrowers only the asset, pretty short sighted that when it is obvious that a borrower has taken other lenders for a ride what is going to happen when the loan term expires. Lendy and FS are two prime examples with a few borrowers like this and both have previously said it is only the asset that matters. When the loan expires, if the borrower does not stump up interest or repay then FS will sell the painting. When you walk into a pawn shop for a loan they do not check your credit history and nor should they. They value your asset and give you a loan against it with a high rate of interest. You are kidding yourself if you think you are going to get borrowers with unblemished credit histories taking out secured loans paying 20%+ interest.
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Aug 24, 2017 19:44:10 GMT
I know and I will not be lending to the borrower again.
I have a "one strike you're out" rule. The image of the painting has been burned into my brain.
Unfortunately I don't think this is the end of this debacle.
P.s. also the gold cups.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 13, 2017 19:44:03 GMT
That is a catch 22. FS wouldn't give it back without being paid back and Unb wouldn't provide the money without having the painting. All that would happen then is that FS would hand it over to Unbolted instead of the borrower handing it to unbolted. Are we forgetting that FS don't actually have possession of the painting? They've told us that Constantine's have it. So if this is just a refinancing, Unbolted would pass the money to FS, FS would relinquish their claim on the painting, and Constantine's would update their records to show that they're holding the painting on behalf of Unbolted. If, however, there's a second painting in existence, then the situation is totally different, and obviously worrying.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 13, 2017 20:51:24 GMT
Mikes1531 this loan will not come up on ubl again.
There is a higher likelihood that there is just 1 of the Munnings painting as it was painted when Munnings was visiting America.
Information given freely by the Munnings museum.
Good luck to the investors in the loans that are backed, in a major part, by this piece.
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fp
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Post by fp on Sept 14, 2017 9:09:32 GMT
Mikes1531 this loan will not come up on ubl again. There is a higher likelihood that there is just 1 of the Munnings painting as it was painted when Munnings was visiting America. Information given freely by the Munnings museum. Good luck to the investors in the loans that are backed, in a major part, by this piece. Why do you keep wishing investors good luck, you seem to be suggesting there is an issue with the security, can you back up your theory?
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 14, 2017 10:07:08 GMT
Mikes1531 this loan will not come up on ubl again. There is a higher likelihood that there is just 1 of the Munnings painting as it was painted when Munnings was visiting America. Information given freely by the Munnings museum. Good luck to the investors in the loans that are backed, in a major part, by this piece. Why do you keep wishing investors good luck, you seem to be suggesting there is an issue with the security, can you back up your theory? My view on the loan, I am not invested in either of the loans backed by this securities valuation document, is that it is potentially toxic. This is as a result of due dilligence within the art world amongst others. On top of this I see that other postings have appeared that indicate there to be issues with the borrowers honesty. I make no comment on that. If FS were to do their job correctly then they could liaise in private with the borrower to obtain all documents required to settle the issue. On past evidence I cannot see that happening. For this reason I wish FS investors well with the outcome to these loans as I do not want to see another large lender loss, that is the fault of the platform, added to the list. S
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Sept 14, 2017 10:57:56 GMT
My view on the loan, I am not invested in either of the loans backed by this securities valuation document, is that it is potentially toxic. This is as a result of due dilligence within the art world amongst others. Care to share your DD that leads you to believe the loan is potentially "toxic"?
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Sept 14, 2017 11:31:04 GMT
Not in public Locutus.
Pm me for details and I will let myself be guided by you as a far mre clued up investor.
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Sept 14, 2017 23:08:44 GMT
One issue is that Christies valued the Munnings painting at a range of £500-800k (according to Unbolted) and FS have lent at 51% LTV at the very top of the range. At the more conservative estimate of £500k the LTV is 80%. However, it actually sold in 2003 for £610k which makes recovery seem plausible to me in the event the borrower defaults.
The only issue I have is that FS haven't alluded to any sort of range of valuation and have gone straight for the maximum amount they can lend at while having 'only 51% LTV.' It just leads me to question if they knew about this and if they did what other things they don't make obvious in their headlines and summary valuations.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Sept 15, 2017 8:26:57 GMT
Looks to me as if FS have closed the stable door after the horse has bolted....
That said this is the sort of painting that could gallop away at auction (I used to work for one of the big auction houses) so I would not be too bothered about the LTV
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Feb 10, 2018 23:09:56 GMT
I note that this loan has been renewing since early January. Or has had myriad excuses why funds not paid eben though 3 months late. Indeed there seems to have been the sale of a painting. I wonder which one?
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Feb 11, 2018 9:41:24 GMT
I note that this loan has been renewing since early January. Or has had myriad excuses why funds not paid eben though 3 months late. Indeed there seems to have been the sale of a painting. I wonder which one? Before renewal it may be good for investors if FS did a revaluation including ownership checking of the assets.
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