kaya
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Post by kaya on Aug 24, 2017 8:43:16 GMT
The question still remains as to how Unbolted got so far as listing this loan, presumably without ever knowing where the painting was, or without ever having seen it to confirm its existence. The other question is just what the 'HNW' owner of the painting was trying to do.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Aug 24, 2017 9:09:21 GMT
The details on Unbolted stated "Christies have valued it again at £500,000 - £800,000 for auction purposes". I do not recall a valuation report being attached to support this statement. Were Unbolted lenders being asked to fund this loan without any valuation report?
How recent was this 'valuation' and did Christies actually have sight of the painting? If FS have held the painting in their secure vault since November/December 2016 it can't have been that recent unless there is a fake around.
Is it a mere coincidence that this 'valuation' by Christies is exactly the same as their auction estimate from 2003, clearly available on their website for all to see?
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rgog
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Post by rgog on Aug 24, 2017 9:10:22 GMT
Just had a live chat with FS, and they stated that they have the painting in their secure vault and do not accept loans on paintings without having them in possession. As to valuation I can't really say but it seems high.
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Aug 24, 2017 9:29:11 GMT
I would suggest that Unbolted made a conditional offer to a borrower. When those conditions were not met they withdrew the offer. IIRC all the other painting loans have has a similar format. I would surmise that a smaller platform like UB need the funds to be pledged to ensure the loan can go ahead, very much like a conditional offer of a mortgage. As regards to what happened, those of us who remember AC loan 35 know how complicated affairs with borrowers can be.
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marka
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Post by marka on Aug 24, 2017 9:44:54 GMT
I would suggest that Unbolted made a conditional offer to a borrower. When those conditions were not met they withdrew the offer. IIRC all the other painting loans have has a similar format. I would surmise that a smaller platform like UB need the funds to be pledged to ensure the loan can go ahead, very much like a conditional offer of a mortgage. As regards to what happened, those of us who remember AC loan 35 know how complicated affairs with borrowers can be. I would agree. unbolted state that they were about to take possession, so the offer would have been conditional on that. Christies would probably have been prepared to offer an informal valuation based on last time they sold it, to be formalised once unbolted had taken possession and Christies saw it. I would hope that even if unbolted hadn't been alerted, the loan would have failed to proceed anyway once the painting wasn't forthcoming.
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Post by keyboardworrier on Aug 24, 2017 10:41:31 GMT
I did alert Unbolted earlier that FS had a loan out on this painting. Took me a few minutes to work out where I'd seen it before.let's just say Unbolted (Rito) was shocked to hear this, and I gave them what info I could. I'm glad Unbolted have reacted in this way to protect investors, something that can not be said about FS. I sold my FS loan part immediately, to not hold the security is shocking, if they do then there is a fake about.. Then there is the typical FS exaggerated valuation to boot. Do they use insurance valuations?!! Can't get out of FS quick enough, except I'm stuck in the Whitehaven debacle. Another story.. So it seems like the praise for Unbolted was a little over the top , as this only got noticed due to your tip off!
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Post by rito on Aug 24, 2017 12:05:19 GMT
I would suggest that Unbolted made a conditional offer to a borrower. When those conditions were not met they withdrew the offer. IIRC all the other painting loans have has a similar format. I would surmise that a smaller platform like UB need the funds to be pledged to ensure the loan can go ahead, very much like a conditional offer of a mortgage. As regards to what happened, those of us who remember AC loan 35 know how complicated affairs with borrowers can be. I would agree. unbolted state that they were about to take possession, so the offer would have been conditional on that. Christies would probably have been prepared to offer an informal valuation based on last time they sold it, to be formalised once unbolted had taken possession and Christies saw it. I would hope that even if unbolted hadn't been alerted, the loan would have failed to proceed anyway once the painting wasn't forthcoming. Dear All, My name is Rito Haldar and I am one of the Directors at Unbolted. I have been alerted to various questions raised about the Munnings painting on this forum and I would like to categorically state the following: - We have a valuation from Christies on email (an auction estimate). They would have inspected and authenticated the painting prior to us loaning on it. We would not have loaned on the painting without taking it in possession. - The listing of the loan was not speculative. I can confirm that we were offered to take the painting in possession immediately and had not done so, as we were waiting for an appointment with the specialists at Christies. Thanks
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Aug 24, 2017 19:15:20 GMT
I thought this might be better as a separate thread rather than subsumed within the loan updates. The title is a hindsight one, and although there are several references to the FS thread on various posts I’ve repeated it here too FS Munnings Thread
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 25, 2017 21:25:04 GMT
I did alert Unbolted earlier that FS had a loan out on this painting. Took me a few minutes to work out where I'd seen it before.let's just say Unbolted (Rito) was shocked to hear this, and I gave them what info I could. I'm glad Unbolted have reacted in this way to protect investors, something that can not be said about FS. I sold my FS loan part immediately, to not hold the security is shocking, if they do then there is a fake about.. Then there is the typical FS exaggerated valuation to boot. Do they use insurance valuations?!! Can't get out of FS quick enough, except I'm stuck in the Whitehaven debacle. Another story.. lucas01 I would like to say a massive Thank You for notifying unbolted and protecting our interests. Power of the crowd works again.Amen to that. And yes, " Thank you" lucas01.
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