dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 24, 2019 11:55:20 GMT
I dont think anyone that advocates "no deal" believes there would never be a deal - just that no deal is the starting point for a "fair" deal. I sort of agree with this, kind of like falling down the stairs and breaking your leg is a good starting point for people to focus on your recovery. How witty - spare me please
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 24, 2019 11:41:52 GMT
Interesting read, thanks for the link. I came to a different conclusion to you. My interpretation of that piece is that "yes, a hard border will be required (in the event of a no deal Brexit...)". Only if another state were to make a formal complaint - which would be a risky move by any such state for obvious reasons and therefore inherently unlikely. AND by which point a deal will be done anyway as pragmatism always wins the day. I dont think anyone that advocates "no deal" believes there would never be a deal - just that no deal is the starting point for a "fair" deal.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 24, 2019 9:43:28 GMT
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 23, 2019 14:16:30 GMT
And so how is the common travel area workable post brexit? Please stop believing all the Remoaning propaganda. The common travel area will be extended to a common trade area quicker than Diane Abbott can spell Jeremy Corbyn
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 23, 2019 11:58:41 GMT
I've spent the last 18 months listening to gobby poiticians from the Irish republic telling us what kind of border we can have around our country.
I'm not certain that no deal is a good idea, but I would love to see Leo Varadkar and his cronies squirming with border issues under a no deal scenario Disclaimer, I'm half-Irish . That aside.... hmmm, is it ok that the UK just washes its hands of agreements it's made in the past (and as part of the Brexit negotiations)? See here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_AgreementScroll down to the bit that says "In order to protect North-South co-operation and avoid controls on the Irish border, the UK agreed to protect the Agreement in all its parts and "in the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."" I'm probably missing something, but, aside from the agreement to avoid the imposition of a hard border, I've never understood why the UK hasn't taken a stance like "ok, we won't impose a hard border, but if (the EU makes) Ireland chooses to then that's on them".Dont think you are missing anything here. That is exactly what the UK position would be (no border) and EU/ROI can then sort it out between themselves. EU can then either get in line or see ROI be next to leave ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 23, 2019 10:28:47 GMT
Slightly drastic thread title - crops up every few weeks and makes me skip a beat
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 21, 2019 16:22:49 GMT
Remind me what type of leave have we settled on? Or are we back to "Brexit means Brexit"? The country voted to leave with no deal (unless a deal that is backed by parliament is found). That is what was voted for and that is what MPs also voted for when triggering A50. AND yes brexit does indeed mean brexit - it certainly does not mean remoan
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 21, 2019 14:49:55 GMT
Nope - there was much more disagreement about the Euro, and the reason we didn't join was at least in part because we listened to the experts' advice! To say that a majority of the public backs a no deal exit (held back only by "weasel MPs") is simply supposition - all polls suggest the opposite, Remain has huge lead over no deal head-to-head. Anyway, if you want to be sure in a proper democratic fashion (as you should given the likely chaos that will ensue) just ask them in a referendum on that issue. They might even back it as you suggest, in which case we're all settled and ready to go. "To say that a majority of the public backs a no deal exit (held back only by "weasel MPs") is simply supposition"Where did I say this? The majority of the public backed LEAVE. No more or less. "No deal" was always the fall back position which MPs overwhelmingly voted for. "All polls suggest the opposite"Good old polls. The same things that said Trump lost and that Remain won? Oh. "Anyway, if you want to be sure in a proper democratic fashion (as you should given the likely chaos that will ensue) just ask them in a referendum on that issue."
I think you miss the point about why a second referendum is bad. It is not because Remain might win - as that will never happen. Heard of the stiff upper lip? We are British not French No the reason a second referendum is bad is because it simply prolongs this BS, will create further divide and will destroy yet more value AND will make the biggest threat to this country more likely - a JC government. Instead of that we should be doing deals with USA, China, India etc already.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 21, 2019 14:21:41 GMT
I hope this is a joke - this is ridiculous and reckless language. There is no sense in which any sort of "coup" is taking place, and if you think there is then you might like to read up on coups from history (hint: they often start with tanks being sent to Parliaments). Sadly, it is neither a joke nor a "troll" as they say. I would give your opinion more respect than using the adjectives you have applied to mine although I do understand that because I was using my phone at the time, I wasn't able to write much more than I did. In my opinion, what is happening right now is far more important than leave/remain or any other issue. It goes to the heart of what this nation has been for a very long time - democratic. It has frankly amazed me that so many politicians and members of society seem to have put the issue of the day as more important than the democratic process itself. Parliment is indeed sovereign and can largely do as it wishes including changing past decisions but it is not a collective dictator. It is answerable to the people. I truly believe that if some parliamentarians believe the issue of the day is more important than the democratic process and are plotting a silent coup the PM may have few options. If push comes to shove, then yes government should prevent such a coup by force if it comes to it. Whatever are you suggesting michaelc ? That the 400 or so weasel MPs scheming against the electorate are taken away in the back of some police vans and replaced with honorable servants of the people? I'll contribute at least a few shillings ...
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 21, 2019 13:51:20 GMT
JamesFrance how do you see the UK getting "immediate" trade deals with the EU when trade is an EU competency and any trade deal would need to be negotiated on behalf of the EU as a whole and ratified by 27 member states? Presumably after we've flounced out and refused to pay our exit bill? Liam Fox and his erstwhile Department of International Trade (or whatever it is called) have achieved precisely >>nothing<< in the two years it's been running. Liam Fox - "Let's have a trade deal"! Other country - "Great idea, what's your relationship with the EU going to be"? Liam Fox - "Don't know". Other country - "OK, come back and talk to us when you do know". Liam Fox - ..... >takes deeeeeeep breath< Because the EU is DESPERATE for our £39b plus our ongoing trade. I wish people would stop being so negative. Do you really think 27 member states are needed to decide EU trade policy/deals? 25 of them are absolutely irrelevant, they do as they are told or they have their funding stopped. Very very simple. All these EXPERTS scare-mongering are much the same as those that said we MUST JOIN THE EURO. This is now a small number of weasel MPs vs the public. Any second referendum (for those dreaming of one) will be massively pro-leave. British Pride isnt going to back down on this and only those politicians so out-of-touch with reality are still calling for one. It is time to let the EU know that we are leaving with no deal on 29 March and we will keep our £39b until a deal is found.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 20, 2019 10:09:43 GMT
JRM stating very eloquently clear facts and propositions. JOB otoh sounds a bit clueless and angry and not of sufficient intelligence to hold such an interview (granted not many people would be). So it is quite painful to listen to
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 16, 2019 11:30:29 GMT
I refer to my earlier post: "two-nil, and you f***ed it up" Yeah Remain really did f*** it up - from the unassailable position of there not even being a match
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 16, 2019 11:01:00 GMT
I keep hearing a Steve Baker (?) from the ERG pop up saying "we should do the deal that Tusk offered us in 2016, and that gave us everything we wanted" (or words to that effect). Does anybody know what that's about? I think it was Canada +++ (if that clears anything up ) but includes a similar NI issue/backstop so not quite "everything" apparently
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 16, 2019 10:12:27 GMT
SO ... what we need to do now is go back to the EU, tell them we are "surgically removing" the backstop plus some other "bad stuff" - but keeping all the good stuff. All in time to leave on 29/03. Please pass the baton to BJ and let him get on with that
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jan 15, 2019 14:12:33 GMT
Seems like today's vote is clearly a NO but will be interesting to see how many would be needed to swing it to a YES in the next vote. I think that it will be a lot closer than is expected and after some more "compromises" from EU, it will ultimately get voted through as hard brexiteers will realise it is a choice between that or no brexit at all Except BoJo et al have said that remaining is better than TM's deal if that is the choice. You mean the same fella that wrote an article for each side - and then tossed a coin? Well, I wouldn't pay much attention to what he says. He also said yesterday we are 100% leaving on 29 March. Away with the fairies sadly
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