sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Sept 23, 2016 15:02:31 GMT
This site was originally on SS. See Repaid loans PBL010 and PBL028.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 15:33:07 GMT
Very interesting read the valuation of PBL028, BTW made by the same people as the one presented for FS.
The North Field, valued 220k for SS, is now worth 772.000 GBP for FS (!). The sum of North Field + 4 holidays cottages (which was Worth 220k+445k on SS) is now 772k for FS (and note that the cottages are already sold out via long term leasehold, so the value should only have decreased...).
There is somethingvery fishy going on here.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Sept 23, 2016 16:36:16 GMT
I'm out! And out of that darned boat as well...
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 23, 2016 19:31:53 GMT
There is another insight into the platform musical chairs approach this borrower is adopting to his debt funding over on TC, via an arms length SPV of a bridging finance company, C****p 5 Ltd, an 18 month loan running till July 2017 for £306k @ 11%
The security for that TC loan is "Part of North Field, East Field & South Field" and was valued at £560k by A****c in December 2015, so it would appear the TC loan is about to be refinanced. The "Part of North Field" refers to the fact that 2 of the bungalows were excluded.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Sept 26, 2016 8:58:04 GMT
On SS, the 4 cottages were loan PBL010 which had security of £455k, but that included a yacht valued at £135k. The yacht is now FS loan 3105775166. now valued at £75k. The cottages were £320K, but now they have been sold on long leases, returning £2k p.a (4x£500) of ground rent. North Field was PBL028 and valued at £220k. I can't see any extra value having been added. South Field is roughly the same size as North Field, but is restricted by a lake. Less facilities than North Field. East Field again roughly similar size but has no facilities. The valuation on TC was £560k including 2 bungalows(cottages). That broadly ties into the SS valuation. Now for FS we need to deduct £160k (2 cottages) and we are left with an expected valuation of £400k. fundingsecure, can we please have an explanation of what has changed?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Oct 1, 2016 12:00:22 GMT
Glad I came on here to check opinions before putting 10k in! Await FS reply with interest.
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Post by fundingsecure on Oct 1, 2016 13:21:01 GMT
We are fully aware of previous valuations and previous loans, stretching out over more than two years. The security involved in the previous loans encompassed only part of the security we are holding against the current loan, in addition to which the Country Park has expanded considerably in the last 2 1/2 years.
As detailed in the valuation planning permission has been applied for - and received - for additional bungalows, cottages, lodges, mobile homes and camping sites. We have visited the site and spoken at length to the valuer and are confident that the valuation correctly reflects the scope of the security and we believe that the surveyor has given an accurate assessment of the current OMV.
It would not be appropriate to detail every element of the Park on a public site but if any individual investor has specific questions relating to the valuation, the security or the loan itself please contact us directly.
FundingSecure
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Oct 1, 2016 20:24:54 GMT
In respibse to fs post I would say that, if not alrwady done, you should post greater levels of detail on the loan particulars on your platform. That is, unless you don't want the true pucture to be known by all investors on your platform about this borrowers behaviour?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 21:23:16 GMT
We are fully aware of previous valuations and previous loans, stretching out over more than two years. The security involved in the previous loans encompassed only part of the security we are holding against the current loan, in addition to which the Country Park has expanded considerably in the last 2 1/2 years. As detailed in the valuation planning permission has been applied for - and received - for additional bungalows, cottages, lodges, mobile homes and camping sites. We have visited the site and spoken at length to the valuer and are confident that the valuation correctly reflects the scope of the security and we believe that the surveyor has given an accurate assessment of the current OMV. It would not be appropriate to detail every element of the Park on a public site but if any individual investor has specific questions relating to the valuation, the security or the loan itself please contact us directly. FundingSecure I find the level of this response totally unacceptable. Yes, I understand things might slightly change/improve, but substantially The North Field was valued (BY THE SAME VALUER YOU USED...) 220k for SS, just a year ago or so and is now worth 772.000 GBP for FS (!). If the current valuation is an unedited rehash of the previous and does not reflect the reality, that should be definitely changed/updated and detailed to let every investor understand where 552k of additional value comes from... I will not invest in this loan as I don't like the approach of playing with numbers and/or 'convincing' the valuer to change their views so radically. But anyone who is evaluating the potential investment should have access to the full data and not only the 'individuals asking specific questions'
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Post by fundingsecure on Oct 1, 2016 23:24:48 GMT
Apologies if the previous message was not clear - the detailed information in the valuation is already available for all to read. I was suggesting that anyone that needed additional clarification on the valuation should make direct contact.
To respond to the specific point raised relating to the North Field (which forms only part of the security) the information on the valuation gives the following breakdown:
North Field: 4 holiday bungalows, sold by way of long leasehold interests of 99 years, at initial ground rents of £500 per annum per lease = £500 x 4 x 5% (20YP) = £40,000 1 static caravan pitch, at £15,000 = £15,000 1 lodge pitch with lodge in situ, subject to license, at £3,000 per annum = £3,000 x 5% (20YP) = £60,000 3 serviced lodge pitches, at £24,000 per pitch = £72,000 20 lodge pitches (hard standing not yet in situ), at £24,000 per pitch = £480,000 14 touring pitches, at £7,500 per pitch = £105,000 TOTAL VALUATION: £772,000
At the time of the earlier valuation the North Field security only consisted of the following: 35 x touring pitches @ £5,000 per pitch = £175,000 15 x tent pitches @ £3,000 per pitch = £45,000 TOTAL VALUATION: £220,000
In between the two reports the facilities of the park were substantially expanded and improved, raising the value of existing pitches. In addition the LDC was issued and multiple additional planning applications were submitted and approved, which enabled some of the existing pitches to be upraded and additional (higher value) pitches to be added.
The valuation is not simply a rehash of a previous valuation - it is an independant survey carried out by a professional RICS valuer, supported by appropriate level of PI. It is based upon the current status of the park, which has had a considerable level of investment over the last two years to enable it to grow both in size and value. The 18 page report gives a breakdown of the full details, available for all potential investors to view. Only one small part of it is reproduced above to help forum readers understand the added value.
As with all of our loans we endeavour to provide potential investors with as much information as possible. If anything is not clear in the information provided we are always available to try and clarify it, but in the end it remains a personal choice whether they wish to invest in a particular loan.
FundingSecure
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Oct 2, 2016 14:09:21 GMT
Define '20yp' please?
For lodge pitches why has the same value, without costs, been used for those that have no groundworks?
Why is the value £24 k when comparables used are max at £15k?
Why use an inspection report with a 3 month validity window where the date has now passed for you to use if a problem arises?
Regards S
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 3, 2016 12:55:40 GMT
I had problems finding the planning applications. I was searching the name of the Holiday Park (R******) and found one application for South Field. Drop the first "e" and search (R*****) and several others will be found.
/www.iwight.com/planning/PlanAppSearchHistory.aspx
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Post by marc77 on Oct 4, 2016 16:51:10 GMT
I see there is now a 1% [unconditional?] cashback being offered on this one as of a couple of hours ago.
My gut feeling is that this gets filed in the 'too hard pile'. In the words of Buffett, you don't need to swing at every pitch.
Scanning the comments here this is now the 2nd time a P2P site has been used to pay off a loan from a previous P2P site. As this loan is just for a 6 mth duration, the same will happen for a 3rd time. I don't think there is anything untoward by the borrower per se in this, it just reflects the economic circumstances they find themselves in.
It seems to me the only realistic exit is to find the next lender. At some point though, the music may stop playing. The valuation is built up from a collection of lots of annual rents. -I don't know if the sum of the rents minus running costs leaves enough to cover the interest payments (and at what multiple of coverage?). -The loan is to build many new pitches. Is the demand there? Maybe, but I don't know, it's out of my circle of competence. -I can't see it being realistic to sell just some of the locations to pay down the principal, so any realisation of the security must come from a new owner-occupier choosing to purchase the entire site - the universe size of such a category is tiny, so that could take a long time.
I pass on this one.
-- Also, I appreciated the quality of input to this thread, it was really helpful for me, thank you. And I also think the FS representative coming on to present arguments back was good, thanks to him/her.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 5, 2016 16:01:46 GMT
-The loan is to build many new pitches. Is the demand there? Maybe, but I don't know, it's out of my circle of competence. I have no competence on this subject either. But if the weak pound triggered by the Brexit issue continues, ISTM that people will take more holidays closer to home, and that ought to make holiday destinations like this one more attractive. Which ought to help support demand for this borrower's plans. Does that sound like a reasonable conclusion to draw?
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Post by moneymagnet on Oct 5, 2016 17:34:51 GMT
Makes sense to me. Sterling continues to drop and the economy appears to be doing well. Therefore, people will have more money but it will only be worth more to them if they spend it in UK. This bodes well for any business that caters to holidaymakers in UK.
I'm in for a few quid.
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