number5
Member of DD Central
Posts: 449
Likes: 98
|
Post by number5 on Oct 1, 2017 20:41:42 GMT
Hey guys...which platform would you say has very good liquidty on the SM?
Ideally one which you can pick your own loans
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,875
Likes: 7,924
|
Post by SteveT on Oct 1, 2017 20:52:38 GMT
Ablrate’s SM is a genuine market, listing both current bids and offers, so you can either transact immediately at the best available offer / bid price or choose to list your own bid / offer. You have full control over loan selection (but, once again, Funding Circle it ain’t)
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Oct 1, 2017 20:56:19 GMT
Hey guys...which platform would you say has very good liquidty on the SM? Ideally one which you can pick your own loans Buying or selling? Ablrate as it allows discounts/premiums Landlordinvest but you will struggle to build a position I have no issues with AC or FS when it comes to selling, buying depends on the loan but phased development loans are easy to pick up when new tranches launch
|
|
number5
Member of DD Central
Posts: 449
Likes: 98
|
Post by number5 on Oct 1, 2017 21:09:40 GMT
Awesome thanks guys, both of you have mentioned Albrate I may have to look.
What I meant by liquidity, was on a selling perspective...e.g. to raise funds to withdraw or an early exit.
Of course I have accepted there is no other FC :-(...so having a look around.
Currently started in FS development loans, but I am not sure about the SM on there...seems there is a lot on the SM and to sell your part could take a long time.
|
|
david42
Member of DD Central
Posts: 419
Likes: 346
|
Post by david42 on Oct 1, 2017 22:40:30 GMT
Your question is touching on a mountain of a topic. It depends what you want from your liquidity.
Personally I use Assetz Quick Access and Funding Circle as the two sites where I expect to be able to realise 50% or more of my portfolio within a few days in most circumstances. Those large liquid markets can handle large volumes of loans.
I do not use my Ablrate account as a source of liquidty because there are too few buyers. Although Ablrate has a variable priced secondary market, that does not mean you can sell a large amount quickly.
There are two ways to sell loans on Ablrate: You can offer your loans for sale at a premium or discount and hope someone accepts your offer, or you can accept someone else's bid to buy your loans at the premium or discout they have chosen. - I often offer my loans for sale. Even when my offer puts me at the front of the queue for selling a loan on Ablrate, on many days I will sell nothing at all. - So rather than sit waiting for buyers, you can instead accept bids that others have already made to buy your loans. But if you want to sell a lot, you will notice that most bids are for tens or hundreds of pounds. If selling a few hundred pounds of a loan at a loss is your requirement, Ablrate can meet it. If you want to sell more you will need to look at platforms with more liquidity.
|
|
number5
Member of DD Central
Posts: 449
Likes: 98
|
Post by number5 on Oct 2, 2017 5:42:31 GMT
Cheers David!
By liquidity I meant sell a lot quickly, like FC.
The thing about QAA on AC is that the interest is only 3.75%. I was hoping to hit the 7/8% mark
FC i have quite a bit invested in long term property loans from before the change, but am not keen on the new model.
|
|
invester
P2P Blogger
Posts: 612
Likes: 618
|
Post by invester on Oct 2, 2017 6:37:33 GMT
Moneything and Collateral have fairly liquid markets, a few months ago Moneything would commonly have nothing on it.
That's set to change now I feel. Just as some borrowers are connected across platforms, so are lenders as well - if you are holding a loan that goes slightly bad it'll be difficult to get out. The prognosis for sentiment I feel is not going to be good in the future, seeing as we still have some probable howlers coming our way in the next year.
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Oct 2, 2017 8:07:55 GMT
FS does if you are willing to sell at a discount. As for some it works out better tax wise.
|
|
number5
Member of DD Central
Posts: 449
Likes: 98
|
Post by number5 on Oct 2, 2017 8:36:24 GMT
Cheers guys!
have read generally there is good liquidity on FS.
But with the loan periods being only 6 months and large loan amounts, does thi not make it difficult to find buyers for the loans?
Is there a good rule of thumb to follow when setting premiums/discounts...in the loan's life cycle?
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Oct 2, 2017 9:42:58 GMT
If selling a few hundred pounds of a loan at a loss is your requirement, Ablrate can meet it. If you want to sell more you will need to look at platforms with more liquidity. I think the "at a loss" bit is perhaps slightly overstated. On the ablrate secondary market right now, half of loans in play have best offers of 100% or more, and all but two have best offers of 99% or more. Agreed that the demand is mostly for hundreds rather than thousands, but if you had a well diversified portfolio with a few hundred in each loan, right now you could dump the whole lot immediately for a small profit. Now, whether those conditions would last for long in the event of any adverse market events is of course an entirely different question!
|
|
david42
Member of DD Central
Posts: 419
Likes: 346
|
Post by david42 on Oct 2, 2017 15:13:21 GMT
If selling a few hundred pounds of a loan at a loss is your requirement, Ablrate can meet it. If you want to sell more you will need to look at platforms with more liquidity. I think the "at a loss" bit is perhaps slightly overstated. On the ablrate secondary market right now, half of loans in play have best offers of 100% or more, and all but two have best offers of 99% or more. Agreed that the demand is mostly for hundreds rather than thousands, but if you had a well diversified portfolio with a few hundred in each loan, right now you could dump the whole lot immediately for a small profit. Now, whether those conditions would last for long in the event of any adverse market events is of course an entirely different question! But if you are looking to sell, a better guide of the price people are prepared to pay for loans are the bid prices, not the offer prices.
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Oct 3, 2017 12:07:21 GMT
I think the "at a loss" bit is perhaps slightly overstated. On the ablrate secondary market right now, half of loans in play have best offers of 100% or more, and all but two have best offers of 99% or more. Agreed that the demand is mostly for hundreds rather than thousands, but if you had a well diversified portfolio with a few hundred in each loan, right now you could dump the whole lot immediately for a small profit. Now, whether those conditions would last for long in the event of any adverse market events is of course an entirely different question! But if you are looking to sell, a better guide of the price people are prepared to pay for loans are the bid prices, not the offer prices. Quite right, and I apologise for the sloppy wording. I did mean bid prices which at the time were evenly split with exactly half at 100% or more, though that has shifted slightly this morning. My point stands, though - a moderate investment, right now, can be dumped at a small profit if needed.
|
|
david42
Member of DD Central
Posts: 419
Likes: 346
|
Post by david42 on Oct 3, 2017 13:26:04 GMT
In that case we are in agreement that small volumes can be traded on Ablrate at sensible prices.
The point I am trying to make is that variable pricing lets you buy your way to the front of the queue but that should not be confused with liquidty - the volume you can realistically trade once you are at the front of the queue. On Ablrate the secondary market demand is mostly for hundreds rather than thousands of pounds. Investors needing more liquid secondary markets should look to other platforms.
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Oct 3, 2017 13:45:40 GMT
The issue with Ablrate 'bid' size is that bids need to be backed up with hard (already deposited) cash .. there's no 'X day settlement period', and while you have a bid in you are losing potential interest .. so no, there's not likely to be many £500k "offers to buy" in the queue, even at 99%. That doesn't mean that if you offer to sell £500k at 98%, there won't be a sudden rush of buyers appear waving direct debits at you.
The reverse situation applies on Ly .. if you put £500k up 'for sale' (only available at par) you are (for no discernible reason) forgoing the interest on same, so people don't. Doesn't mean you couldn't buy £500k if you happen to have the money .. buy what's there, and watch the rest magically appear.
|
|
ablender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,204
Likes: 555
|
Post by ablender on Oct 3, 2017 15:51:39 GMT
The issue with Ablrate 'bid' size is that bids need to be backed up with hard (already deposited) cash .. there's no 'X day settlement period', and while you have a bid in you are losing potential interest .. so no, there's not likely to be many £500k "offers to buy" in the queue, even at 99%. That doesn't mean that if you offer to sell £500k at 98%, there won't be a sudden rush of buyers appear waving direct debits at you. The reverse situation applies on Ly .. if you put £500k up 'for sale' (only available at par) you are (for no discernible reason) forgoing the interest on same, so people don't. Doesn't mean you couldn't buy £500k if you happen to have the money .. buy what's there, and watch the rest magically appear. Did Ablrate change their market? It used to be that you keep earning interest while loan parts are on sale. (If I remember correctly)
|
|