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Post by mrclondon on Oct 9, 2017 18:37:27 GMT
@new2p2p some quick answers to your queries 1) All reported posts are archived for ever. Nothing is deleted. So the 6000 is indeed across the 4 years. When a post is reported forum staff are presented with a view of the reported post along with a history of and linking to every previously reported post made by that individual, and details of all past PMs to the individual. 6000 across 4 years equates to an average of 4 posts a day that are reported, some by other forum members and some by forum staff ourselves. The obvious spam can just be deleted and the spammer banned, but the rest of the reports need a bit of brain engagement to decide the appropriate action that is needed, and as star dust says many require discussion amongst several staff members to ensure the matter is dealt with fairly. 2) No rota, its just pitch in when on line. The system does throw out email alerts when posts are reported and that can prompt us to login if not busy. Effort involved is almost impossible to quantify - this year for me has varied between ten minutes a day to 6 plus hours a day. I'm early retired, but have my finger in quite a few pies so at various times drop back from the coal face a bit. And that is why the size of the mod/admin team can never be too large as the more people involved allows others to drop back for a while. 4) We can't always positively spot the shill marketeers / shill smearers which is a major concern. (We do detect one or two most years, and take appropriate action) |
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Post by paul123 on Oct 9, 2017 19:06:38 GMT
To take my turn to answer, why are (or in my case why were) you a mod. I saw a call asking for volunteers and it just occurred to me that since I was getting a great deal of benefit from being a member of the forum I should attempt to “pay it back” and take a turn moderating. Nothing more complex than that. Shortly after being accepted and signed up, I got a job and wasn’t able to put a huge amount of effort into moderating or at least no where near as much as most of the rest but I was still checking in several times a day and helping out where I could: deleting/banning spammers, commenting on discussions on reports made, trying really hard to be polite on PMs to people breaking rules (and thus threatening the future of the forum as I saw it).
I’m not foolish enough to expect to get thanks for volunteering as a mod but then again, I’m not particularly thick skinned and rightly or wrongly I felt that the setting up of a private forum that specifically banned me personally from ever joining was a slap in the face and a rejection of all the efforts I’d made as a mod. I also felt restricted in what I could put on the boards less it be interpreted as some kind of official mod line. I know that other mods are far better at that than me. Anyway, given all that, I felt I didn’t really have the strength or conviction to be a mod any more even though, at times, it was the best fun ever and a great sense of belonging.
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Post by oldnick on Oct 9, 2017 19:10:05 GMT
Evening star dust , I like your openness as expressed here it helps a lot with understanding. Thinly stretched, how thin and how many willing volunteers would the forum need today to match membership growth? What are the personal qualities you are looking for to fill your volunteer 'vacancies'. Please share your thoughts. Well, as star dust hasn't replied - there are now nine active staff members. SteveT and paul123 having, understandably, decided the job is no longer worth it. Thinly stretched we are and it's getting worse. The level of rule-breaking posting is unrelenting, and when those people finally go to bed, in the early hours, the far eastern spammers wake up. I would turn your question around - what personal qualities are you, the forum members, looking for? We're only doing this because no-one else will. (I would say that at one time or another in the last month we have all seriously contemplated walking away from this forum - never mind staying to staff it. This is an edited version of what I'm thinking - but bitterness at the ingratitude and rudeness of some is balanced by the kind sentiments of others who do seem to see the point of it all.)
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 9, 2017 19:35:41 GMT
@new2p2p some quick answers to your queries Thanks MrC, appreciated. Any thoughts on my earlier post regarding the poll? I get that there is a certain logic in taking a 'build it and they will come' approach (to misquote a misquote), but I'm still not convinced there is a broader requirement for such a facility, and that second poll result isn't helping in that respect. Just my 2¢ worth.... Its unlikely more than a few hundred out of the 3500+ would actually care about performing detailed DD or indeed be wanting to read it ... a redacted summary of highlights is what they want and need. So the debate is perhaps about providing a DD structure for a few which should benefit much larger numbers indirectly. Hence why we adopted the focus group approach to try to seek opinions from those who are more likely (based on past posting behaviour) to want to be involved with detailed DD.
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fp
Posts: 1,008 
Likes: 853
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Post by fp on Oct 9, 2017 19:49:36 GMT
Its unlikely more than a few hundred out of the 3500+ would actually care about performing detailed DD or indeed be wanting to read it ... a redacted summary of highlights is what they want and need. So the debate is perhaps about providing a DD structure for a few which should benefit much larger numbers indirectly. This being the case, why bother making it available to them?
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 9, 2017 19:59:49 GMT
Its unlikely more than a few hundred out of the 3500+ would actually care about performing detailed DD or indeed be wanting to read it ... a redacted summary of highlights is what they want and need. So the debate is perhaps about providing a DD structure for a few which should benefit much larger numbers indirectly. This being the case, why bother making it available to them? Sorry, I'm obviously missing the point here. Some people want to get involved in detailed DD, some (most) don't. DD Central will provide the structure for anyone who meets any eligibility criteria that are decided (perhaps a minimum historical post count for example) to take part. The work of the few benefit the many.
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binkle
Member of DD Central
Posts: 57
Likes: 29
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Post by binkle on Oct 9, 2017 20:06:21 GMT
Been involved on and off with different forums and interweb space since earliest days. Weak or absent moderation has always concerned me more than the opposite, and I for one value those willing to do so, however irritating all the asterisks are!
I think the feeling that some borrowers and sites are taking liberties with our cash by fudging LTV and underplaying related borrowing etc is real and well founded, but not sure unmoderated forum is the answer either. Undercover reporting, now that could be fun in one or two lender offices...
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fp
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 853
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Post by fp on Oct 9, 2017 20:09:50 GMT
This being the case, why bother making it available to them? Sorry, I'm obviously missing the point here. Some people want to get involved in detailed DD, some (most) don't. DD Central will provide the structure for anyone who meets any eligibility criteria that are decided (perhaps a minimum historical post count for example) to take part. The work of the few benefit the many. But why go to all the trouble of doing this if only a few are actually interested, why not just have a pink pages for each platform, where only legitimate users of the platform who have agreed to the platforms T&C's can access the posts relative to that particular platform?
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 9, 2017 20:23:24 GMT
Sorry, I'm obviously missing the point here. Some people want to get involved in detailed DD, some (most) don't. DD Central will provide the structure for anyone who meets any eligibility criteria that are decided (perhaps a minimum historical post count for example) to take part. The work of the few benefit the many. But why go to all the trouble of doing this if only a few are actually interested, why not just have a pink pages for each platform, where only legitimate users of the platform who have agreed to the platforms T&C's can access the posts relative to that particular platform? Yeah that would be a good option. We did create a proforma SLA (service level agreement) for the provision of a private board (as per AC) a couple of years ago and made the platforms aware of it, but none took us up on the offer - it is a bit of a hassle for the platforms in verifying users. The offer to platforms stands, I can supply platforms reps with a copy of the proforma SLA as a starting point for further discussions on request. The complaint that a certain platform made last month to the FCA about the moderation of this forum being far too lax is still working its way through due process (I have a copy of the formal complaint so it wasn't a bluff by the platform). Separate to that the same platform is I believe going to make further noises elsewhere about this. A potential very long term outcome of this agitation MIGHT be an industry funded KYC prequisite check for membership of a new p2p forum. However, as commented up thread, the probability is individual loan selection will have disappeared as an option long before such an approach could be formalised. (Personally I'd ignore this paragraph, its not worth serious consideration IMO at this stage).
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fp
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 853
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Post by fp on Oct 9, 2017 20:27:27 GMT
But why go to all the trouble of doing this if only a few are actually interested, why not just have a pink pages for each platform, where only legitimate users of the platform who have agreed to the platforms T&C's can access the posts relative to that particular platform? Yeah that would be a good option. We did create a proforma SLA (service level agreement) for the provision of a private board (as per AC) a couple of years ago and made the platforms aware of it, but none took us up on the offer - it is a bit of a hassle for the platforms in verifying users. The offer to platforms stands, I can supply platforms reps with a copy of the proforma SLA as a starting point for further discussions on request. The complaint that a certain platform made last month to the FCA about the moderation of this forum being far too lax is still working its way through due process (I have a copy of the formal complaint so it wasn't a bluff by the platform). Separate to that the same platform is I believe going to make further noises elsewhere about this. A potential very long term outcome of this agitation MIGHT be an industry funded KYC prequisite check for membership of a new p2p forum. However, as commented up thread, the probability is individual loan selection will have disappeared as an option long before such an approach could be formalised. (Personally I'd ignore this paragraph, its not worth serious consideration IMO at this stage). personally I would kick "said platform" off the forum, see what good that does their business. At least you wont have to worry about moderating them then.
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shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
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Post by shimself on Oct 9, 2017 20:30:30 GMT
I don't think "secret" is the right word. But one practical reason is simply how groups are permissioned. You either permission everybody, or you only permission individuals. In other words you can't permission everybody and then remove those you don't want (eg platform reps). Permissioning 3500 odd people individually would be.... onerous. Oh come on. If platform reps aren't already flagged they should be. And what's a bit of RSI? - I'd do it. (You mentioned making the world a better place that's a key litmus test for me, good on you)
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guff
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Post by guff on Oct 9, 2017 21:49:47 GMT
But why go to all the trouble of doing this if only a few are actually interested, why not just have a pink pages for each platform, where only legitimate users of the platform who have agreed to the platforms T&C's can access the posts relative to that particular platform? Yeah that would be a good option. We did create a proforma SLA (service level agreement) for the provision of a private board (as per AC) a couple of years ago and made the platforms aware of it, but none took us up on the offer - it is a bit of a hassle for the platforms in verifying users. The offer to platforms stands, I can supply platforms reps with a copy of the proforma SLA as a starting point for further discussions on request. The complaint that a certain platform made last month to the FCA about the moderation of this forum being far too lax is still working its way through due process (I have a copy of the formal complaint so it wasn't a bluff by the platform). Separate to that the same platform is I believe going to make further noises elsewhere about this. A potential very long term outcome of this agitation MIGHT be an industry funded KYC prequisite check for membership of a new p2p forum. However, as commented up thread, the probability is individual loan selection will have disappeared as an option long before such an approach could be formalised. (Personally I'd ignore this paragraph, its not worth serious consideration IMO at this stage). Do I take it the complaint being investigated by the FCA relates to one of your private forums?
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DeafEater
Member of DD Central
Extremely Moderate
Posts: 228
Likes: 304
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Post by DeafEater on Oct 9, 2017 21:58:41 GMT
Without wishing to name them, let's say they didn't have a cause...
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 9, 2017 22:05:39 GMT
One final question for Mods. What do you get out of this, really? Do you do it for the love of the hobby? Is it because you simply want to help others? Is it because you might have access to information you otherwise would not? As I understand it, the mods are completely unpaid? Assuming you get absolutely nothing in direct compensation, there must be a reason each of you commits his/her time, even if it's simply for the love of interaction with fellow p2p'rs? I really would be interested to know why each of you became a mod (truthfully) and why you continue to commit your time? Perhaps with the leaving of 60 or so users (thought it sounds like all didn't actually leave as such), these reasons no longer exist? I'm here primarily because of the 'origins' of this forum. I was a member of the original "indie FC forum", as were a number of current members. Having found it by accident I was grateful for its existence. When it was subject to a no notice shutdown - having been (allegedly) strong armed by FC and then bought and closed - there was a scramble to try and get something setup fast before the community dissipated. And to ensure it operated in a way that it was not overly open to threats by platforms and would not buckle in the face of those threats, that meant a need to ensure "staff" were in place quickly. I felt that there was an important role to be played by a independent forum, that dissipation of the community was a loss, that it was of interest and use to me, and frankly was also angry that FC had pulled the rug from the last one and should not be allowed to achieve their objective. So I put myself in the frame to assist. That is what motivated me then. And much the same is what had continued to keep me wanting to ensure the forum can remain a public facing entity; be a relatively hospitable place for those who are wandering by and might decide eventually to drop in, while performing a number of useful purposes (from which of course I can also benefit, in case I get accused of spouting false altruism). As for the immediate now ? Different question.
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Post by martin44 on Oct 9, 2017 22:19:44 GMT
One final question for Mods. What do you get out of this, really? Do you do it for the love of the hobby? Is it because you simply want to help others? Is it because you might have access to information you otherwise would not? As I understand it, the mods are completely unpaid? Assuming you get absolutely nothing in direct compensation, there must be a reason each of you commits his/her time, even if it's simply for the love of interaction with fellow p2p'rs? I really would be interested to know why each of you became a mod (truthfully) and why you continue to commit your time? Perhaps with the leaving of 60 or so users (thought it sounds like all didn't actually leave as such), these reasons no longer exist? As for the immediate now ? Different question. If you have something to say, maybe here and now is the place, opportunities for mods to air their opinions are few and far between, a chance to clear the air maybe. 
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