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Post by explorep2p on Nov 23, 2017 22:18:32 GMT
Hello Forum We have an upcoming interview arranged with Mintos CEO Martins Sulte. What would you like to know? We will put some of the questions posted here to him. when do you expect to publish the interview? Hopefully not too long now Kilozulu - promise to publish a link here once it is up. Thanks everyone again for the great questions.
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Post by jor1971 on Nov 24, 2017 6:23:19 GMT
In the blog there are very interesting questions to ask Mintos.
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Post by kilozulu on Nov 24, 2017 8:15:06 GMT
Right, with this structure I will treat the platform and any money I put in as pure gambling. Gamble, win, win, win and leave before they pull the curtains down. So it will be a small amount, with the added fun of buying discounted "buy-back guarantees". What do you mean by "this structure"? To me Mintos seems lika one of the most solid EUR platforms, hence the question.
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shimself
Member of DD Central
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Post by shimself on Nov 24, 2017 8:21:54 GMT
Right, with this structure I will treat the platform and any money I put in as pure gambling. Gamble, win, win, win and leave before they pull the curtains down. So it will be a small amount, with the added fun of buying discounted "buy-back guarantees". What do you mean by "this structure"? To me Mintos seems lika one of the most solid EUR platforms, hence the question. What are the connections of ownership between Mintos and their Borrowers (Loan originators)? Is it true that one person owns Mintos and around 80% by value of the originators?
Why are Mintos liable for buyback and not the introducers?
You can find a number of other worrying assertions on mintos-independent-review.blogspot.fr/2016/10/peer-to-peer-lending-platform-mintos.html
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Post by dutchman on Nov 24, 2017 16:11:09 GMT
What do you mean by "this structure"? To me Mintos seems lika one of the most solid EUR platforms, hence the question. What are the connections of ownership between Mintos and their Borrowers (Loan originators)? Is it true that one person owns Mintos and around 80% by value of the originators?
Why are Mintos liable for buyback and not the introducers?
You can find a number of other worrying assertions on mintos-independent-review.blogspot.fr/2016/10/peer-to-peer-lending-platform-mintos.htmlI think we all know p2p are risky investments, but the question here is "What would you like to ask the Mintos CEO?". Apart from the info on that blog page, its a bit strange somebody writes only 1 or 2 blogposts also it seems to me the data is a bit outdated for more up to date info see: www.mintos.com/en/loan-originators/www.mintos.com/2015_annual_report.pdfwww.mintos.com/2016_annual_report.pdfi guess by the end of april 2018 you can download the 2017 report...
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shimself
Member of DD Central
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Post by shimself on Nov 24, 2017 17:08:37 GMT
What are the connections of ownership between Mintos and their Borrowers (Loan originators)? Is it true that one person owns Mintos and around 80% by value of the originators?
Why are Mintos liable for buyback and not the introducers?
You can find a number of other worrying assertions on mintos-independent-review.blogspot.fr/2016/10/peer-to-peer-lending-platform-mintos.html I think we all know p2p are risky investments, but the question here is "What would you like to ask the Mintos CEO?". Apart from the info on that blog page, its a bit strange somebody writes only 1 or 2 blogposts also it seems to me the data is a bit outdated for more up to date info see: www.mintos.com/en/loan-originators/www.mintos.com/2015_annual_report.pdfwww.mintos.com/2016_annual_report.pdfi guess by the end of april 2018 you can download the 2017 report... I don't see that the annual reports give much clarity to those points. I also fear that the utter lack of response from anyone representing Mintos tells us something. Actually having them give some sort of answer to those questions posed by a journalist might get us somewhere. Yes that person only wrote a couple of blog posts. So, so.. I can draw all manner of inferences in directions good and bad. I don't think that tells us much
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Post by moneymakingmoney on Nov 25, 2017 3:10:08 GMT
Basically like any other p2p platform, they don't want to be held responsible in case any company goes bankrupt. Of course they will try to hold some responsibility as otherwise they basically go bankrupt as well. as far as I know any p2p investment is 'risky' in that you always keep the claim right on any loan, but when mintos or any other p2p platform goes bankrupt, Mintos is the one responsible for the buyback guarantee. Good luck claiming the debt from multiple 'small' loans from different individuals. So in other words it's buyback guarantee for as long as Mintos or any other p2p platform with buyback exists and when they go bankrupt, it collapses like a house of cards. The only reassuring thing is that Mintos and any other platform rake in tons of interest on any loan provided on the platform. Let's say, you receive 12% interest and mintos receives 20% interest, making it somewhat unlikely for Mintos to go bankrupt. Ofcourse they still have maintenance costs, employee wages, marketing costs etc. It will be interesting to see when the first bigger platform collapses. How it will be dealt with and if p2pinvestments buyback platforms will survive at all when it does happen. Or what happens when another economical crisis hits. My instinct tells me to just invest and pull-out before any Bondora type horror story happens.
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Post by kilozulu on Nov 25, 2017 8:12:58 GMT
I don't see that the annual reports give much clarity to those points. I also fear that the utter lack of response from anyone representing Mintos tells us something. Actually having them give some sort of answer to those questions posed by a journalist might get us somewhere. Yes that person only wrote a couple of blog posts. So, so.. I can draw all manner of inferences in directions good and bad. I don't think that tells us much These blog posts were already discussed on this forum with Martins from Mintos providing answers. p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6835/warning-invest-mintos-before-reading The same discussion happened also on Facebook fellows page, if I correctly remember it was even more detailed. My takeaway was: - there is one overlapping minority shareholder (Kesenfelds) between Mintos and several originators. With that being only minority position still much better than most other platforms where originator is fully owned by same owner and platform is effectively just a business unit of originator, not structurally independent entity. - it was a false statement, Mintos is not liable for buyback, each originator is. So risk is originator default, not Mintos. See Eurocent defult case study explorep2p.com/eurocent/- and the other worrying assertions in that anonymous blog point didnt rise my alarm as well. Thought its just a defamation attack by a competitor, was suspecting the creative guys with the longest track record in Baltics
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sb
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Post by sb on Nov 25, 2017 8:45:30 GMT
I don't see that the annual reports give much clarity to those points. I also fear that the utter lack of response from anyone representing Mintos tells us something. Actually having them give some sort of answer to those questions posed by a journalist might get us somewhere. Yes that person only wrote a couple of blog posts. So, so.. I can draw all manner of inferences in directions good and bad. I don't think that tells us much These blog posts were already discussed on this forum with Martins from Mintos providing answers. p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6835/warning-invest-mintos-before-reading The same discussion happened also on Facebook fellows page, if I correctly remember it was even more detailed. My takeaway was: - there is one overlapping minority shareholder (Kesenfelds) between Mintos and several originators. With that being only minority position still much better than most other platforms where originator is fully owned by same owner and platform is effectively just a business unit of originator, not structurally independent entity. - it was a false statement, Mintos is not liable for buyback, each originator is. So risk is originator default, not Mintos. See Eurocent defult case study explorep2p.com/eurocent/- and the other worrying assertions in that anonymous blog point didnt rise my alarm as well. Thought its just a defamation attack by a competitor, was suspecting the creative guys with the longest track record in Baltics Assignment agreement clearly states that the originator is obliged to pay buyback, not sure the agreement is binding however, I don't know if there is a contract between Mintos and the originator which allows Mintos to enter contracts on behalf of the originator. "10.2. If provided in the Basic Terms and Conditions, the Loan Originator shall be obliged to unilaterally exercise its buyback obligations if the Borrower delays the payments arising from the Loan Agreement by more than 60 (sixty) days"
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sb
Posts: 166
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Post by sb on Nov 25, 2017 8:50:48 GMT
Basically like any other p2p platform, they don't want to be held responsible in case any company goes bankrupt. Of course they will try to hold some responsibility as otherwise they basically go bankrupt as well. as far as I know any p2p investment is 'risky' in that you always keep the claim right on any loan, but when mintos or any other p2p platform goes bankrupt, Mintos is the one responsible for the buyback guarantee. Good luck claiming the debt from multiple 'small' loans from different individuals. So in other words it's buyback guarantee for as long as Mintos or any other p2p platform with buyback exists and when they go bankrupt, it collapses like a house of cards. The only reassuring thing is that Mintos and any other platform rake in tons of interest on any loan provided on the platform. Let's say, you receive 12% interest and mintos receives 20% interest, making it somewhat unlikely for Mintos to go bankrupt. Ofcourse they still have maintenance costs, employee wages, marketing costs etc. It will be interesting to see when the first bigger platform collapses. How it will be dealt with and if p2pinvestments buyback platforms will survive at all when it does happen. Or what happens when another economical crisis hits. My instinct tells me to just invest and pull-out before any Bondora type horror story happens. Based on 2016 accounts Mintos is a losing money business (200k loss), it is kept alive by cash injections from shareholders. Their income from commission was only 0.5mln , that is around 1% percent of the outstanding loans. The high interest charged to borrowers is received by the loan originators.
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Post by kilozulu on Nov 25, 2017 10:32:42 GMT
Basically like any other p2p platform, they don't want to be held responsible in case any company goes bankrupt. Of course they will try to hold some responsibility as otherwise they basically go bankrupt as well. as far as I know any p2p investment is 'risky' in that you always keep the claim right on any loan, but when mintos or any other p2p platform goes bankrupt, Mintos is the one responsible for the buyback guarantee. Good luck claiming the debt from multiple 'small' loans from different individuals. So in other words it's buyback guarantee for as long as Mintos or any other p2p platform with buyback exists and when they go bankrupt, it collapses like a house of cards. The only reassuring thing is that Mintos and any other platform rake in tons of interest on any loan provided on the platform. Let's say, you receive 12% interest and mintos receives 20% interest, making it somewhat unlikely for Mintos to go bankrupt. Ofcourse they still have maintenance costs, employee wages, marketing costs etc. It will be interesting to see when the first bigger platform collapses. How it will be dealt with and if p2pinvestments buyback platforms will survive at all when it does happen. Or what happens when another economical crisis hits. My instinct tells me to just invest and pull-out before any Bondora type horror story happens. Based on 2016 accounts Mintos is a losing money business (200k loss), it is kept alive by cash injections from shareholders. Their income from commission was only 0.5mln , that is around 1% percent of the outstanding loans. The high interest charged to borrowers is received by the loan originators. My understanding is Mintos has got to break-even during 2017 already, but I can't find the source, maybe I heard it informally somewhere. The fact that they dropped secondary market fee seems to signal they are not running out of cash. Btw that has significantly boosted secondary market trading volumes, very good for liquidity.
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sb
Posts: 166
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Post by sb on Nov 25, 2017 10:59:42 GMT
These blog posts were already discussed on this forum with Martins from Mintos providing answers. p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6835/warning-invest-mintos-before-reading The same discussion happened also on Facebook fellows page, if I correctly remember it was even more detailed. My takeaway was: - there is one overlapping minority shareholder (Kesenfelds) between Mintos and several originators. With that being only minority position still much better than most other platforms where originator is fully owned by same owner and platform is effectively just a business unit of originator, not structurally independent entity. - it was a false statement, Mintos is not liable for buyback, each originator is. So risk is originator default, not Mintos. See Eurocent defult case study explorep2p.com/eurocent/- and the other worrying assertions in that anonymous blog point didnt rise my alarm as well. Thought its just a defamation attack by a competitor, was suspecting the creative guys with the longest track record in Baltics Assignment agreement clearly states that the originator is obliged to pay buyback, not sure the agreement is binding however, I don't know if there is a contract between Mintos and the originator which allows Mintos to enter contracts on behalf of the originator. "10.2. If provided in the Basic Terms and Conditions, the Loan Originator shall be obliged to unilaterally exercise its buyback obligations if the Borrower delays the payments arising from the Loan Agreement by more than 60 (sixty) days" Not sure Kesenfelds is minority shareholder. He is a founding partner of Skillion Ventures and Skillion Ventures has majority stakes in Mintos and some originators (at least Mogo and Hipocredit). Skillion Ventures is a private company so it is difficult to establish his exact role at Skillion Ventures but he is likely to be a major decision maker there.
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sb
Posts: 166
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Post by sb on Nov 25, 2017 11:12:51 GMT
Based on 2016 accounts Mintos is a losing money business (200k loss), it is kept alive by cash injections from shareholders. Their income from commission was only 0.5mln , that is around 1% percent of the outstanding loans. The high interest charged to borrowers is received by the loan originators. My understanding is Mintos has got to break-even during 2017 already, but I can't find the source, maybe I heard it informally somewhere. The fact that they dropped secondary market fee seems to signal they are not running out of cash. Btw that has significantly boosted secondary market trading volumes, very good for liquidity. Strangely 2mln Skillion Ventures investment in Mintos is not showing in their 2016 accounts. Share capital increased only 250k.
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Post by kilozulu on Nov 25, 2017 18:06:11 GMT
My understanding is Mintos has got to break-even during 2017 already, but I can't find the source, maybe I heard it informally somewhere. The fact that they dropped secondary market fee seems to signal they are not running out of cash. Btw that has significantly boosted secondary market trading volumes, very good for liquidity. Strangely 2mln Skillion Ventures investment in Mintos is not showing in their 2016 accounts. Share capital increased only 250k. The 2m apparently were subscribed as new shares but not immediately paid in, with Mintos having an option to call the money to be paid in when needed. Due to good revenue growth they did not need the full amount.
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Post by rahafoorum on Nov 28, 2017 16:48:49 GMT
Assignment agreement clearly states that the originator is obliged to pay buyback, not sure the agreement is binding however, I don't know if there is a contract between Mintos and the originator which allows Mintos to enter contracts on behalf of the originator. "10.2. If provided in the Basic Terms and Conditions, the Loan Originator shall be obliged to unilaterally exercise its buyback obligations if the Borrower delays the payments arising from the Loan Agreement by more than 60 (sixty) days" Not sure Kesenfelds is minority shareholder. He is a founding partner of Skillion Ventures and Skillion Ventures has majority stakes in Mintos and some originators (at least Mogo and Hipocredit). Skillion Ventures is a private company so it is difficult to establish his exact role at Skillion Ventures but he is likely to be a major decision maker there. If that's the case, shouldn't there be a remark about it being related company? Well, apparently they removed all the remarks to this regard from loan originator pages at some point, but at least they had those for Banknote and Hipocredit earlier. Haven't seen that ever for Mogo.
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