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Post by aroominyork on Nov 9, 2017 12:10:56 GMT
So I'm new to p2p. I put £20k into Ratesetter a few months ago and now plan the same for FC. It would be quite good to have it wrapped in the promised ISA but I figure when the ISA launches there will be a stack of new cash invested which will delay the time til my money is loaned, and potentially FC will be a bit less rigorous in their lending criteria. So I uploaded the first £5k a few days ago (less than £250 loaned so far...) and assuming that is taken up soon will upload the rest, with the intention of paying 40% tax on the earnings and reclaiming it through SIPP investments. Does any of that sound questionable?
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markr
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Post by markr on Nov 9, 2017 14:49:27 GMT
Since FC have fee-free sell out now, I think it's fine to invest now because if you are happy with the ISA you'd be able to sell out and re-invest in the ISA at no cost (apart from cash drag). You couldn't guarantee that you'd get your old loans back, though, but if you decide that quality has gone down you can opt to keep what you have outside the ISA.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Nov 9, 2017 15:25:45 GMT
If you have the £20k available now, the quickest way to get it invested is to put it all straight into Funding Circle now because Autobid buys you a maximum of 0.5% in each new loan. So it will take approximately the same time to get 100% invested regardless of whether you have £5k or £20k on the platform.
It took Autobid 4 weeks to get 100% of my money invested in September, starting with nothing.
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Post by aroominyork on Nov 9, 2017 16:21:45 GMT
If you have the £20k available now, the quickest way to get it invested is to put it all straight into Funding Circle now because Autobid buys you a maximum of 0.5% in each new loan. So it will take approximately the same time to get 100% invested regardless of whether you have £5k or £20k on the platform. It took Autobid 4 weeks to get 100% of my money invested in September, starting with nothing. Thanks - that's helpful. The only downside is that if I put it all in now and after £5k has been allocated I decide I do not like the feel of FC and want to pull out, I'd have 2% in each loan. I could sell the good ones but would be stuck with 2% of the bad ones. So I guess the thing to do is to make a decision asap about whether to invest the rest.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Nov 9, 2017 19:14:38 GMT
That is a valid point if you might want to stop at £5k invested. You have clearly thought this through quite thoroughly.
There is a trade off between speed of investment and your maximum exposure to each loan. If you are contemplating a £20k investment in Funding Circle you need to be comfortable having £100 in each loan.
Selling is easier than buying at the moment so if you wanted out you could sell the whole lot quite easily - apart from any that had already had the risk band removed during the period of your investment - that would be quite unlucky.
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Post by df on Nov 9, 2017 20:27:43 GMT
If you have the £20k available now, the quickest way to get it invested is to put it all straight into Funding Circle now because Autobid buys you a maximum of 0.5% in each new loan. So it will take approximately the same time to get 100% invested regardless of whether you have £5k or £20k on the platform. It took Autobid 4 weeks to get 100% of my money invested in September, starting with nothing. Thanks - that's helpful. The only downside is that if I put it all in now and after £5k has been allocated I decide I do not like the feel of FC and want to pull out, I'd have 2% in each loan. I could sell the good ones but would be stuck with 2% of the bad ones. So I guess the thing to do is to make a decision asap about whether to invest the rest. The only horror stories I've heard were when investors didn't diversify and put their funds into a handful of self-selected loans... Now, under new compulsory autobid regime, this is no longer the case. Whether it is 5k or 20k, your funds will be diversified to 0.5%, which means in theory you will get something near their projected return. I assume selling off will be relatively easy too.
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Post by aroominyork on Nov 10, 2017 9:55:53 GMT
That is a valid point if you might want to stop at £5k invested. You have clearly thought this through quite thoroughly. There is a trade off between speed of investment and your maximum exposure to each loan. If you are contemplating a £20k investment in Funding Circle you need to be comfortable having £100 in each loan. Selling is easier than buying at the moment so if you wanted out you could sell the whole lot quite easily - apart from any that had already had the risk band removed during the period of your investment - that would be quite unlucky. Well, I've only thought it through to a degree, because I’ve now realised I do not actually know what happens if I have part of a loan which defaults or is downgraded, either in the case of my wanting to keep it or my wanting to sell it on the secondary market. Can you maybe run me through this or direct me to wherever the best explanation already exists? Does this FC link cover everything accurately?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 10, 2017 13:08:48 GMT
Yes that probably covers it if you read all the words. In summary though if a loan is defaulted, risk band removed, or behind with its payments, you usually can't sell it anyway (and picking such loans to sell specifically is now really hard, thanks to auto-everything being in charge).
Expect to have bits of damaged/dented loans paying you pennies a month for the next forever, with no way of escaping (I've lobbied for a 'give this mess to charity' button, but Fullof Cotton failed to hear my pleas.)
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Post by aroominyork on Nov 10, 2017 13:31:19 GMT
Yes that probably covers it if you read all the words. In summary though if a loan is defaulted, risk band removed, or behind with its payments, you usually can't sell it anyway (and picking such loans to sell specifically is now really hard, thanks to auto-everything being in charge). Expect to have bits of damaged/dented loans paying you pennies a month for the next forever, with no way of escaping (I've lobbied for a 'give this mess to charity' button, but Fullof Cotton failed to hear my pleas.) The damaged pennies sound a drag. Does it happen on a fixed day each month or would I find threepence landing on Monday, sixpence on Wednesday etc.? Could you get the pennies auto-reinvested and then sell them all in one go?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 10, 2017 14:19:45 GMT
Nope, the pennies come in when/if the defaulted borrower(s) make a payment of some sort .. no fixed schedule (least of all the original repayment schedule!). Yes, you can save them up, and either re-invest or withdraw .. but not until you have accumulated £20 worth, and assuming you are still alive at the time. For most of the loans where I only have a small exposure I'd much rather just walk away, but that isn't an option (same trouble with stocks/shares where I have some ZDP investment trust companies still going through receivership and sending me paperwork to justify the administrator's costs, 10 years after the event).
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Post by aroominyork on Nov 10, 2017 14:26:41 GMT
OK, I can live with that, so long as pennies are not landing in my bank account whenever they feel like it! I guess you can just ignore it, check it once a year and then splash out on a few Mars bars.
Are there any other key annoyances with FC which might make me wish I'd never got involved?
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Nov 10, 2017 16:33:37 GMT
Given how long the IFISA from FC has been anticipated, I think you should also consider the fact that it might not be available any time soon. If it does eventually appear (and I wouldn't expect to see it this tax year) I'd expect limits on 'new' ISA money only / existing customers only to limit any wall of cash.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 10, 2017 17:46:01 GMT
And do the sums on bad debts .. claimable against income outside an ISA,which may be worth as much as the tax break, depending. (You'll have to guess a bit).
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johns
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Post by johns on Nov 10, 2017 17:48:07 GMT
You could try an alternative like AC where you can immediately invest in the Quick Access facility which returns 3.75% with essentially instant access (OK, it might take a few tenths of a second, but you can check that at any time). It also has the benefit of a back-up fund to help protect against defaults. The AC IFISA is due to be in operation before the year end. I happen to believe that it will happen as promised. In contrast, I have zero confidence in FC who seem to allow loans to go way over their repayment date before they even think about chasing things up. No surprise that my only remaining investments in FC are defaulted loans or others which are overdue by not inconsiderable lengths of time (e.g. 203, 195 and 185 days). It seems that all a borrower has to tell FC is 'I'll pay it next week...month...whenever' and FC says 'That's fine, it's only our stupid investors money after all!'. Unlike FC, AC seems to keep you regularly updated on borrower activity and even gives lenders the ;uxury of a vote on any proposed variation which a borrower might seek. Rant over!
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Post by aroominyork on Nov 10, 2017 18:29:27 GMT
Thanks for the AC suggestion, johns, but I have Ratesetter for my easy come/easy go p2p so I'm happy to wait a few weeks for my money to get allocated in FC for a higher rate. There are a good few gripes on this forum about FC but I assume that's the same for most of the providers and that people who are happy enough do not log on to share them. I'm happy with autobid - I would not want to select for myself.
I'm also content to be outside the ISA and, like I said in my first post, reclaim the tax through SIPPs. The bit about offsetting bad debts is useful to know; is there a single figure I can find in my FC account which tells me (and lets me print out for an HMRC record) how much I can offset at the end of the financial year?
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