IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 23, 2017 20:34:14 GMT
(The only problem is that the value you ask the new provider to transfer will be the full value of the FC ISA, because the defaulted parts are worth zero. Perhaps transfer the whole sold amount less £1?)
There is no need to leave £1 behind. I think you are inventing non-existent problems. Have you never transferred an ISA? It is very easy. The value you ask your new provider to transfer is the value of the cash sitting on your Funding Circle ISA after Autobodge has sold what it can. The value that is left behind in Funding Circle is the (unknown) value of the loans that cannot be sold. But there is no requirement to know their value. On the ISA transfer form from you new ISA provider you don't tick the box to transfer the whole ISA. Instead you tick the box to transfer £x, where you choose the £x. Both these options have been available on the ISA transfer forms I have used in the past. The only complicated part that I see is managing the gradual run down of the residual Funding Circle ISA. Personally I would probably let autobodge re-invest cash as it was recovered from default loans, then at occasional intervals I would do a further ISA transfer to move more of those recovered funds to my preferred new ISA home. you can't do a partial transfer of current year's subscriptions, and FC wont allow past years' in yet, so you can't do the above. Yet.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 23, 2017 20:35:27 GMT
Reading between the lines of this bit: "You will be able to transfer your Funding Circle ISA to another ISA provider, although it’s important to remember that loan parts that can’t be sold won’t be transferred and will no longer be eligible for tax-free interest" suggests that downgraded parts will be moved back to your "classic" account and you'll lose that bit of your ISA allowance (but it was effectively lost anyway, so it's no big deal). Edit: well it's a slightly bigger deal as recoveries will be outside the ISA. So the most tax effective approach under their current terms would be to do a partial ISA transfer rather than a full transfer, leaving behind a residual ISA account holding only the unsellable loans. Funding Circle ISA terms do not mention partial ISA transfers, but all the ISA transfers I have made have allowed the option of transferring only part of the ISA. you can't do a partial transfer of current year subscription - all or nothing. So the above would have to be after April 6 2018.
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david42
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Post by david42 on Nov 23, 2017 20:47:40 GMT
Shucks. That would explain why Funding Circle did not suggest that approach in the first place. I get very confused by the additional first year ISA restrictions. I will need to be a little bit patient.
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Post by df on Nov 23, 2017 21:17:29 GMT
So, having liquidated my entire holding just to prove a point I am now left trying to rebuild my portfolio.
The first 2 days went as expected, 46 loan parts and then all of a sudden, come Wednesday, nothing? Strange thought I, maybe Wednesday was a slow day with no loans formed. WRONG!!
When I checked the loan book this morning, it appears that Wednesday was in fact the busiest day of the week? ?
No worries I thought, I will simply open chat and talk to a real human being. I posed the question about why a 4 figure sum had not been allocated to any of the 86 loans on Wednesday to be replied to with a "Cut and paste" answer from FC's FAQ's. Thee really is nothing more annoying than that in my mind. It's like they believe that you are so stupid that you can't find the FAQ's!!
Sooooooo, I asked for a human answer to which I received a human constructed response......................... "See my answer above!" Feel it may be time to remove the funds in this account and cancel the rather large amount of funds that were due to be allocated to it also.
I told them I would wait and see what the next 24 hours bring. So far, NADA, ZILCH, SQUAT, FA, NOTHING!!! I've never needed to contact FC, but I'm not surprised to hear that responses are "dehumanised". I'm not sure if it is wise to jump from liquidation to rebuilding in order to prove the point. But if you do this you have to accept that in most cases rebuilding takes more time than demolition.
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Post by grahamreeds on Nov 24, 2017 8:58:44 GMT
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I also liquidated my entire portfolio but got cold feet and clicked stop selling - probably less than 2 minutes between the two. In this time £1500 was sold. 20 minutes later it stopped selling but only because it liquidated my entire £25k portfolio.
Emailed FC and they keep repeating that it may take a few minutes to stop selling.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 24, 2017 9:07:12 GMT
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I also liquidated my entire portfolio but got cold feet and clicked stop selling - probably less than 2 minutes between the two. In this time £1500. 20 minutes later it stopped selling but only because it liquidated my entire £25k portfolio. Emailed FC and the keep repeating that it may take a few minutes to stop selling. Did you press that big red button?
gfycat.com/gifs/detail/glitteringgrizzledfluke
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 24, 2017 9:16:32 GMT
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I also liquidated my entire portfolio but got cold feet and clicked stop selling - probably less than 2 minutes between the two. In this time £1500. 20 minutes later it stopped selling but only because it liquidated my entire £25k portfolio. Emailed FC and the keep repeating that it may take a few minutes to stop selling. Hijack away, I can't see anybody paying a ransom for a thread like this. I am merely running down my FC account so won't be active until I sell my property loans with 2 payments left. However if I was looking to be active. I would run several accounts buying only on one day in each. Disposing of any secondary market buys instantly and then liquidate the day before the first interest payment. Then repeat the process. Labour intensive but about as safe as is achievable.
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Post by skint4achange on Nov 24, 2017 9:26:15 GMT
It's not labour intensive at all to be fair.
1. It takes about 5 seconds to select "Sell" and then enter and confirm the amount you want to sell.
2. After about 20 minutes you whole portfolio has gone select "Start lending".
3. At the end of each day, sell off your SM loan parts.
4. 1 day before the first payment, repeat from step 1.
The only thing you may find, is like I said at the beginning of the thread, when you liquidate your entire portfolio it takes time to build back up and there appears to be something in the system that "Penalises you" for doing so.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 24, 2017 10:02:24 GMT
It's not labour intensive at all to be fair.
1. It takes about 5 seconds to select "Sell" and then enter and confirm the amount you want to sell.
2. After about 20 minutes you whole portfolio has gone select "Start lending".
3. At the end of each day, sell off your SM loan parts.
4. 1 day before the first payment, repeat from step 1.
The only thing you may find, is like I said at the beginning of the thread, when you liquidate your entire portfolio it takes time to build back up and there appears to be something in the system that "Penalises you" for doing so. If you evolve it to its natural conclusion it would be very labour intensive. You would need a minimum of 14 accounts, you would need to recycle unused money from account to account on a regular basis etcetera etcetera. I'm worn out just thinking about it.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 24, 2017 10:10:57 GMT
I don't think people have grasped that 'start lending' might well involve autobodge reloading your portfolio with a selection of the same aged (or worse) parts that you (or someone else) just UNloaded. Afaik there's no way to prevent it buying tat on the SM (nor should there be, if we want a level playing field). I agree that statistically it OUGHT buy at least a few 'fresh' parts, but hey this is FC autobodge we are talking bout 'ought' doesn't figure prominently in the spec.
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Post by grahamreeds on Nov 24, 2017 10:40:13 GMT
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I also liquidated my entire portfolio but got cold feet and clicked stop selling - probably less than 2 minutes between the two. In this time £1500. 20 minutes later it stopped selling but only because it liquidated my entire £25k portfolio. Emailed FC and the keep repeating that it may take a few minutes to stop selling. Hijack away, I can't see anybody paying a ransom for a thread like this. I am merely running down my FC account so won't be active until I sell my property loans with 2 payments left. However if I was looking to be active. I would run several accounts buying only on one day in each. Disposing of any secondary market buys instantly and then liquidate the day before the first interest payment. Then repeat the process. Labour intensive but about as safe as is achievable. I thought about that but really requires automation but also suffers from cash drag. You need as much as possible to cover an entire day of purchases. Another idea was to liquidate on the last day of every month. Again cash drag.
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Post by grahamreeds on Nov 24, 2017 10:42:49 GMT
I agree that statistically it OUGHT buy at least a few 'fresh' parts, but hey this is FC autobodge we are talking bout 'ought' doesn't figure prominently in the spec. Spec? You have it on good authority that they have a spec?
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Post by skint4achange on Nov 24, 2017 10:56:42 GMT
Just a few points from above.
1. I don't see where the 14 accounts come from unless you have a very large amount of money invested and want to ensure it is all loaned out around the same day.
2. You can dispose of parts that have been bought for you by Autobodge. You just need to pause lending at the end of the day and then restart once the part is sold (You do not tend to get too many parts from the SM to be honest).
3. A level playing field?? This is investing, since when has there ever been a fair playing field??  If you want a fair playing field, there should be no SM, just like on Lendinvest.
4. Cash drag is/is not an issue. Yes, there is cash sitting around earning nothing for short periods of time. However, Autobodge will allocate you loan parts that will give you a gross of around ~11.6% to 12.2% (From what I have seen so far). Even taking into account the 3 to 4 days to liquidate and restock your portfolio, with no losses possible, your net would be in the region of 9.5% to 10%. Not a bad return for a little messing around for half an hour or so (Per account I should say).
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Post by skint4achange on Nov 24, 2017 11:00:50 GMT
A quick extra note for the above.
If you have a large amount in your account you will still invest at the rate of 0.5% per loan part. To obtain 200 parts would take you roughly 8 to 9 days. Even if you just retained those parts in one account and liquidated it one day before the first loan part payment was due your interest rate would still be around 8.5% to 9.0%.
That is with no messing about or moving money between numerous accounts.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 24, 2017 11:28:07 GMT
A quick extra note for the above.
If you have a large amount in your account you will still invest at the rate of 0.5% per loan part. To obtain 200 parts would take you roughly 8 to 9 days. Even if you just retained those parts in one account and liquidated it one day before the first loan part payment was due your interest rate would still be around 8.5% to 9.0%.
That is with no messing about or moving money between numerous accounts.
Very interesting. It does seem, from various posts, that a complete balanced portfolio will sell in an hour or so, while such a portfolio takes a goodly number of days to be created. Either there is a structural and serious imbalance between supply and demand, or just possibly FC have anticipated the flipping strategy you mention and have engendered some delay. It arises because of the removal of the selling fee, and the mass flipping issue would have come up in the analysis of the proposed change. Some purchases would be on the SM, and would have repayments spread and risks attached. It is only on PM purchases that you could get an advantage - and I do not know the balance. BTW, my selling strategy is the same as VI's. Two accounts, one which contains the early maturing property loans, one which contains the later. To be sold before the penultimate interest payment.
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?
If you want a fair playing field, there should be no SM, just like on Lendinvest.