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Post by beeje13 on Jan 16, 2018 16:05:43 GMT
Given that only a finite number of bitcoins can ever exist, and the blockchain is fixed forever, what happens when all the bitcoins are lost down the back of the crypto-sofa? As an example, ages ago I got some bitcoin from a faucet and put it in a wallet on a PC, but forgot about it and now the PC is long gone. There may be a finite number but they can be subdivided infinitely. Still a valid point though. Smallest amount supported by the blockchain is one Satoshi, or one hundred millionth.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 16, 2018 18:33:04 GMT
Given that only a finite number of bitcoins can ever exist, and the blockchain is fixed forever, what happens when all the bitcoins are lost down the back of the crypto-sofa? As an example, ages ago I got some bitcoin from a faucet and put it in a wallet on a PC, but forgot about it and now the PC is long gone. I am no expert in the blockchain and I am trying to get my head around this technology but here is my take on this:
Firstly, that was rather silly! When getting rid of your "Crypto Sofa" you should have done what I do which is cut the thing into bits to ensure there is nothing left in the bottom (Lets call this a back-up of the HDD!). If you were giving your "Crypto sofa" away, maybe the new owners of the said "Crypto sofa" have still got access to the original cushions (Hard disk!) and wouldn't mind giving them back to you? Also on this subject, if your "Crypto sofa" was connected to a cloud drive or something similar you may have access to your wallet that fell down the back? Or, maybe you took a copy of the address of the wallet that you lost?
Now for my take on the blockchain. I am open to being corrected as I would like to learn as much about this as I can. But, here goes.
The blockchain is not fixed and the only limitation to it's size is the sheer size of the distributed ledger that is made up from all of the transactions that make up the ledger. A new block is created every 10 minutes or so and this is then added to the blockchain and as such is forever a part of the distributed ledger.
Bitcoins can be mined and as such, there is no finite number of these either. Lets also remember though that there are hard/soft forks in the blockchain and as such we should bear in mind that we are not just talking about Bitcoin.
There is an interesting article about the size of the blockchain here ( hackernoon.com/if-we-lived-in-a-bitcoin-future-how-big-would-the-blockchain-have-to-be-bd07b282416f ) where the author discusses the way that the blockchain will have to evolve.
Two of the points that I take from this article are:
1. While the distributed ledger would be getting bigger and technology would have to move to keep up with the size of the ledger, I think it may just do that. The current size of the ledger is about 150Gb. A few years ago the PC to hold that much information would have been huge (Remember the Spectrum 48k?). Now though, you can carry 1Tb HDD's in your pocket. Given the advances in technology over the last few years, who knows where we will end up over time with regards to storage space etc.
2. Next, the assumption is that we will be talking about the blockchain in the future in it's current form. Lets say that the blockchain at present is blockchain v1.0. In 10 years we may be talking about blockchain v3.7 etc. Technology moves very fast. If it didn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
There is nothing stopping the blockchain from splitting many many times but all parts remaining in "Contact" so that the ledger can be checked periodically from other chains and verified. I am not saying this is what will happen, there are much smarter people than me out there who will work on this and when one of their heads are close to exploding, blockchain v2.0 will be born and then more development will take place.
I do hope however that people stop thinking of the blockchain as just Bitcoin. It is SO much bigger than Bitcoin
As I said before, please feel free to correct me as I want to learn more. The more you understand the more you can appreciate and integrate
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moogman
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Post by moogman on Jan 16, 2018 19:56:54 GMT
There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins - By ~2150, all will be found/mined.
Due to the fixed supply, and the controlled 'release', there is built-in deflation, and this leads to interesting conclusions if you research/think/know enough about economics!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 16, 2018 20:49:09 GMT
There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins - By ~2150, all will be found/mined. Due to the fixed supply, and the controlled 'release', there is built-in deflation, and this leads to interesting conclusions if you research/think/know enough about economics! Ok, so Yes, I now see that there are a limited amount of Bitcoins and (After some looking on Google) I now partially understand deflationary currency etc. and can see there are pro's and cons. Thank you, I have learnt something new today (It's a sad day when you stop learning because it means you think you know everything as my dad used to say!). For those interested, here are 2 articles from opposite sides of the coin so to speak:
www.investinblockchain.com/bitcoin-is-a-deflationary-currency/
www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/04/money
But this conversation isn't just about Bitcoin. I still believe (As do most of the sceptics of Bitcoin in the investment/economics environment!) that the blockchain is a major thing and will contribute a large deal to how our world functions in the future.
I know that the statement moogman said above was relating to a part of what I had written previously (And I thank him for the information) but I really do think that some people need to stop thinking "Bitcoin" every time someone mentions Blockchain.
I still want to know more, so please correct me if any of what I have said is incorrect so I know here to look for further information
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Post by beeje13 on Jan 16, 2018 22:18:08 GMT
Yes I'm sure Blockchain tech will get better and better.
Bitcoin is really old - the oldest afaik. Bitcoin Cash for example resulted from people wanting to improve on Bitcoins limitations.
Ripple and other newer blockchain technology is miles ahead of Bitcoin.
I still believe that the coins/tokens are a gimmick that will not play a large part in the future.
E.g. I think it's 61 banks/financial institutions are using Ripple technology in some way. Almost none of them are using XRP. They make their own tokens at will for their own network operations.
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moogman
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Post by moogman on Jan 17, 2018 7:44:30 GMT
banks/financial institutions are using Ripple technology in some way. Almost none of them are using XRP Nailed it!
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Post by moneymakingmoney on Jan 18, 2018 3:07:54 GMT
Hi guys, found this fun thing today. next gen cryptokitties with pvp. Become the top of the food chain with a fish haha my.fishbank.io/go/142934Help a brother out and sign up if this sounds somewhat amusing. I just want enough referrals to enter the alpha. On another note, you could also pre-order some bad-ass fishes for some crypto if you can spare the (hypothetical) cash. I'm pretty sure it's a risky investment, but the returns would be good I guess.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 18, 2018 10:52:37 GMT
I saw these before and my confess I just starred at the TV for a long time after I saw them!
I am not sure what their use is but I am guessing that someone somewhere has a reason for this apparent insanity, but again, without trying to understand it we won't know. However, I prefer to wait for my granddaughters to give me an update on how successful these are in the near future!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 11:03:08 GMT
I have to admit I couldn't understand the language. The technology is easy but the gibberish, not so easy. Off to Switzerland in a couple of months so I can play cow-poo bingo, now that is a subject I can understand.
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markr
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Post by markr on Jan 18, 2018 15:59:08 GMT
Firstly, that was rather silly! When getting rid of your "Crypto Sofa" you should have done what I do which is cut the thing into bits to ensure there is nothing left in the bottom (Lets call this a back-up of the HDD!).
Well, quite, although the coins were pretty much worthless then, and to be fair even now wouldn't be much more than loose change. The PC was one I'd used for work, so it had to go in the WEEE bin with its disk properly destroyed, and perhaps it's telling that I didn't consider the Bitcoin wallet to be something useful enough to be copied off it before scrapping it! Maybe more irksome is that also used to put the PC into a web-based mining pool every so often, and I can't for the life of me remember my login, or even which website it was or if it still exists. Presumably these coins aren't lost forever though, as they were only allocated to me by the website rather than the blockchain. I recall being pleased when it ticked over to 0.01 BTC, so while not a fortune it's a tad annoying.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 18, 2018 16:02:10 GMT
Firstly, that was rather silly! When getting rid of your "Crypto Sofa" you should have done what I do which is cut the thing into bits to ensure there is nothing left in the bottom (Lets call this a back-up of the HDD!).
I recall being pleased when it ticked over to 0.01 BTC, so while not a fortune it's a tad annoying. Hey, while it's not a fortune 0.01 BTC is currently worth $100........................No, wait, $86................Hold on.................$198..........................Sorry, back to $34.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 18, 2018 16:31:56 GMT
I know more than one person who has "lost" the odd bitcoin on old hardware over the years. Some of them even used old GPUs I gave them to mine the damn things .
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 18, 2018 16:35:42 GMT
The safest and most secure way to look after your high tech, totally intricate, mind blowing Bitcoin technology??? Write down the bloody address and password on a piece of paper!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 17:56:27 GMT
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 18, 2018 18:02:29 GMT
This isn't New or News to be honest Bobo. Anyone who is into Crypto knows all about Mtgox and other exchanges that were hacked and had Crypto stolen.
They were stupid because they held the Crypto in hot wallets and had s**te security.
It must have been a REALLY slow day at Bloomberg to spend so much time on this drivel of a piece.
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