r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Dec 18, 2022 11:13:21 GMT
As DBW said himself back in January 2018 " Closing procedures are reasonably complex with aircraft but we had the team in......." Back in May 2018 his team had no problem being able to meet with the companys directors and major shareholder "We also had lunch with one of the major shareholders and they have plans for expansion of the service. We will be getting the update out when it is received"I maybe wrong, but I don't think this loan has links to the same crowd as the other loans which have shown to be inextricably linked. Having said that, absolutely shocking level of service from ablrate with this loan. These cosy lunches seem to feature highly across several failed platforms. I wonder who paid? Has anybody, ever seen where these aircraft were advertised for sale? I have seen zero evidence of any serious efforts to bring this loan to a close, and now it looks like we have worthless security including one of those personal guarantees that are not worth the paper they were printed on (over lunch?). I have tried to be positive about DBW and Abl, but it's beginning to look rotten and DBW is doing nothing to change my view.
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nyneil
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Post by nyneil on Dec 18, 2022 16:48:45 GMT
If the aircraft can't be sold 'as is', maybe it should be broken for spares; at least that would give some return.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 18, 2022 18:17:10 GMT
Just fire sale the thing.
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 18, 2022 18:21:05 GMT
If the aircraft can't be sold 'as is', maybe it should be broken for spares; at least that would give some return. Is the first Abl aircraft spares loan still running or are we thinking buy One get One?
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Dec 18, 2022 19:56:07 GMT
If the aircraft can't be sold 'as is', maybe it should be broken for spares; at least that would give some return. Is the first Abl aircraft spares loan still running or are we thinking buy One get One? The spares loan went teats up and was last meaningfully updated about about a year and a half ago, usual flannel about chasing directors for PG's and that isn't going to happen and not internationally. The sloppiness of the update speaks volumes.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Dec 18, 2022 20:10:53 GMT
Just fire sale the thing. First, find them for sale?! I have been looking for years!
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on Dec 19, 2022 10:40:40 GMT
But what is it that could be sold?
My recollection of the original loan offer, and based on the posts on page1 of this thread, the borrower doesn't own these aircraft - they're only leased from the ultimate owners (based in Lithuania?). Maybe the lease could be sold on? But I'd doubt that the aircraft could be broken up for spares without the owners' formal permission.
Further, if the borrower has failed to pay interest on this loan, is it likely that the borrower has maintained any lease payments? Perhaps the ultimate owners have already repossessed the aircraft for non-payment...
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 19, 2022 12:10:52 GMT
But what is it that could be sold? My recollection of the original loan offer, and based on the posts on page1 of this thread, the borrower doesn't own these aircraft - they're only leased from the ultimate owners (based in Lithuania?). Maybe the lease could be sold on? But I'd doubt that the aircraft could be broken up for spares without the owners' formal permission. Further, if the borrower has failed to pay interest on this loan, is it likely that the borrower has maintained any lease payments? Perhaps the ultimate owners have already repossessed the aircraft for non-payment... pretty sure the aircraft are owned by the company and that ABL has a chattel mortgage over them.
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squid
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Post by squid on Dec 19, 2022 13:00:12 GMT
The loan was advertised by this FCA regulated firm as having an uncapped personal guarantee from the Directors/Shareholders. This fact therefore likely affected investors decisions to invest or not (and how much), with the full expectation that the PGs would be pursued if necessary. Don't see why this should be in any way amusing, or an unrealistic possibility. The outcome of other PGs in other unrelated loans is not relevant. My investment in this loan is small, but others are likely to have significant funds invested. ablrate
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Dec 19, 2022 19:39:02 GMT
The loan was advertised by this FCA regulated firm as having an uncapped personal guarantee from the Directors/Shareholders. This fact therefore likely affected investors decisions to invest or not (and how much), with the full expectation that the PGs would be pursued if necessary. Don't see why this should be in any way amusing, or an unrealistic possibility. The outcome of other PGs in other unrelated loans is not relevant. My investment in this loan is small, but others are likely to have significant funds invested. ablrate Yup, all true. And these chancers have had years to insulate themselves from any personal guarantee claim, and they will have. So it goes, sadly.
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Post by brummiefred on Dec 20, 2022 16:55:38 GMT
Email just in
Dear All
Following an inquiry from a lender who was seeking clarity on the Air Cargo Loan (#94), I wanted to follow up with everyone.
I think in my haste to get out an update I gave the impression that there was no avenue for recovery when that is not quite accurate. .
The aircraft security was enhanced, at our cost, during the period of recovery including apostilled documents (required by the aircraft registry in Bulgaria) regarding ownership of the aircraft and our absolute right to sell and direct the registry to update records as and when required, effectively taking ownership of the aircraft. The documents relating to the aircraft are being held by lawyers in Bulgaria.
There is no issue with security of the aircraft, the issue is selling the aircraft. Having had no access during covid we did what we could to market it in anticipation of the aircraft being available for inspection including hiring a person to deal with it who is very experienced in the aircraft industry.
At this time we have had three companies make offers, one being a Ukrainian company that services these type of aircraft, a Czech company and another that was looking to send the aircraft to Africa. Both the Ukrainian business and the latest offer inspected the aircraft and were OK with the aircraft and documents. The Czech business didn't inspect the aircraft and we heard no more from them after the Ukrainian invasion.
The Ukrainian business had obvious issues and we do not know if that business is still in operation and the other went quiet on us but has recently got in touch with our guy (i.e yesterday) to say they are still keen. The PG's are still in operation. The issue is that, in some instances, claiming on the PG means giving up on the asset, as a lawyer could argue that value could still be created to offset that which is owed. While there is a possibility to sell the asset that is the situation we are in, if we have something to sell that is better than chasing PGs through courts.
There is, however, no point in us being unrealistic as to recovery prospects through the aircraft if not sold soon. I have a meeting with our aircraft guy to discuss our options in the first week of January after the latest contact from a potential buyer. We are looking at;
1. A sale if the party is still interested
2. Part out (i.e sell it for parts)
3. The outside option is a JV with an operator, but how realistic that is we will have to see as it will cost to get back in the air.
4. Whatever the above outcome is then the PG's are still active. Griffin are looking at a number of outstanding issues, this being one of them.
From our perspective we want to have no nonsense communications with lenders about loans and their recovery prospects, but sometimes the nuances get lost in straight forward communications and this is one of those times, for which I apologise.
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GreenZero
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The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse who gets the cheese
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Post by GreenZero on Dec 20, 2022 17:18:21 GMT
Here is some straight forward communication ablrate - we're basically in exactly the same position as we were in 2019.....Waiting, waiting and more waiting, but never any action. More transparency is needed in relation to where the aircraft (both of them) are adverised for sale? A bit like Scottish lodges, I've never been able to find who is listing them.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 21, 2022 8:23:36 GMT
It is hard to tell if that email is referring to one plane or two. it does not help that the plural of aircraft is also aircraft. However some passages do read as if there is only one plane. See "it" in option 2. In which case what happened to the other one?
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Dec 21, 2022 16:07:57 GMT
It is hard to tell if that email is referring to one plane or two. it does not help that the plural of aircraft is also aircraft. However some passages do read as if there is only one plane. See "it" in option 2. In which case what happened to the other one? There are two aircraft, or were? These aircraft will not have fared well sitting around and the idea that the directors would be sitting around waiting for us to claim on a personal guarantee is laughable, sorry. I have already mentally written off £3000, will be astounded if I get a substantial portion back.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 23, 2022 0:55:07 GMT
I have already mentally written off £3000, will be astounded if I get a substantial portion back. I'm not sure that letting ablrate (or the company directors immediately concerned) know that, via a public forum, is going to increase whatever return we see.
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