puddleduck
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Post by puddleduck on Apr 24, 2018 9:31:17 GMT
In time, we'll look to evolve the solution and cater to this more experienced persona group. Keen to get your thoughts on what you would find valuable? Curiosity as much as anything  My issue is your fees, which considering the unambitious target return seem high - I could be wrong but from memory is 0.65%? So even with your £100 incentive,we are only really £35 up. I made a similar comment in a Gogi thread, so not picking on you,honest and BondMason seems to be getting kicking for their fees too (I do not invest with either) Someone today could simply open an account with Ratesetter at the moment, and Kuflink at the moment, and get between 3.5% and 7% fairly easily - with £200 in sign up incentives right now, really that isn't hard for anyone to open a few accounts to diversify,so I'm not clear how you think you are adding value in the P2P market, or even a particularly interesting product if its just a wrapper. Even the £100 you are offering doesn't tempt me when you take back £65 in fees after the year, assuming a £1k deposit. 'only' 0.65% compounded year in, year out, adds thousands in fees over the a double digit investment term potentially. Targeting lazy money is absolutely fine is that is your model. But I can't see how you add value to the market.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Apr 24, 2018 9:36:42 GMT
In time, we'll look to evolve the solution and cater to this more experienced persona group. Keen to get your thoughts on what you would find valuable? Curiosity as much as anything My issue is your fees, which considering the unambitious target return seem high - I could be wrong but from memory is 0.65%? So even with your £100 incentive,we are only really £35 up. I made a similar comment in a Gogi thread, so not picking on you,honest and BondMason seems to be getting kicking for their fees too (I do not invest with either) Someone today could simply open an account with Ratesetter at the moment, and Kuflink at the moment, and get between 3.5% and 7% fairly easily - with £200 in sign up incentives right now, really that isn't hard for anyone to open a few accounts to diversify,so I'm not clear how you think you are adding value in the P2P market, or even a particularly interesting product if its just a wrapper. Even the £100 you are offering doesn't tempt me when you take back £65 in fees after the year, assuming a £1k deposit. 'only' 0.65% compounded year in, year out, adds thousands in fees over the a double digit investment term potentially. Targeting lazy money is absolutely fine is that is your model. But I can't see how you add value to the market. 0.65% of 1K is 6.50.
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Post by jordan on Apr 24, 2018 10:06:06 GMT
In time, we'll look to evolve the solution and cater to this more experienced persona group. Keen to get your thoughts on what you would find valuable? Curiosity as much as anything My issue is your fees, which considering the unambitious target return seem high - I could be wrong but from memory is 0.65%? So even with your £100 incentive,we are only really £35 up. I made a similar comment in a Gogi thread, so not picking on you,honest and BondMason seems to be getting kicking for their fees too (I do not invest with either) Someone today could simply open an account with Ratesetter at the moment, and Kuflink at the moment, and get between 3.5% and 7% fairly easily - with £200 in sign up incentives right now, really that isn't hard for anyone to open a few accounts to diversify,so I'm not clear how you think you are adding value in the P2P market, or even a particularly interesting product if its just a wrapper. Even the £100 you are offering doesn't tempt me when you take back £65 in fees after the year, assuming a £1k deposit. 'only' 0.65% compounded year in, year out, adds thousands in fees over the a double digit investment term potentially. Targeting lazy money is absolutely fine is that is your model. But I can't see how you add value to the market. I appreciate your position, and as mentioned in the thread earlier, we're not targeting the more experienced P2P investors with this current solution. It's not overly arduous opening a couple of P2P accounts, granted, but for many, this asset class is fairly complex - with varying models and difficulties in standardising metrics enabling like-for-like comparison, building a well-researched and balanced portfolio can be problematic. This is where our position as a market analyst comes in. Our fee is 0.65% annually, correct. Which equates to £6.50 on a £1,000 investment, not £65. With the £100 bonus (end 30th Apr), we feel this is a reasonable incentive to convert those interested but concerned by the rate and potentially other aspects of our business. Time will tell, of course. We're only recently launched. Value is always at the forefront of our mind and for those time poor or new to the asset class, this is where we believe we do add value. Again, appreciate it's not for everyone, and I do thank you for the comments. Does actually really help.
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annie
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Post by annie on Apr 24, 2018 10:36:38 GMT
Been watching this thread after chatting to Iain's dad in supermarket. Good luck in creating a market for those who want a managed solution. But at the end of the day, unless you are going to take on the very poor credit control and underwriting problems we on the forum are always highlighting, can't see the 'thinking' money will be attracted to you. At the risk of repeating myself, the P2P industry will see more Collaterals and sites being absorbed by a few big players like any other market place at this stage in its development. Now if you want to share your crystal ball and tell us which sites and or loans will survive then I'm in. Otherwise I'll keep out of P2P until the blood has dried.
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Post by df on Apr 24, 2018 11:18:33 GMT
A few of us did a similar incentive with LC (when cashback was a newish concept). Nearly everyone had some form of default and the incentive was quickly chipped down and most felt it was not worth the hassle A BM clone is not really sought after and several have already "been there and tried it" Hey, thanks for your comments. Not sure what you mean by the LC incentive, are you referring to LendingCrowd? Keen to hear more. BM have done well, and we are both aggregators, however the models do differ: BondMason offers receivables to be purchased, whereas we help build and execute a portfolio comprised of a few major P2P lending platforms (you can view asset allocation before investing). We're trying to remove hassle while retaining returns and reducing risk. Appreciate it's not for everyone, of course. I've been with LendingCrowd for over a year. They keep offering bonuses for increasing investments. These come with condition to keep the increment invested for (iirc) a year. I didn't keep track of it, bit it seems like as soon as one offer expired they introduce another one. I never went for it - despite the bonuses are very generous, I don't want to be overexposed to one single platform. However, I think this strategy works well - it is now difficult to get a loan part at higher rate.
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Post by df on Apr 24, 2018 11:29:50 GMT
It doesn't appeal to me because I'm already well diversified across loans/platforms and not planning to increase my p2p funds in near future, but I think this offering is very good for those (particularly new investors) who don't have time for researching and selecting platforms. I hope it goes well, best of luck! Completely understand. It's a great point, we're conscious that regulars on the forum will be very experienced in P2P and as such may not find value in our current solution. In time, we'll look to evolve the solution and cater to this more experienced persona group. Keen to get your thoughts on what you would find valuable? Curiosity as much as anything What I would find attractive is if you had a list of all platforms that you're using and I could select the ones I don't want my funds to be invested on (or the other way round). There are platforms I would have used if they didn't have minimum amount per loan that don't fit my diversification strategy.
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Post by jordan on Apr 24, 2018 12:54:49 GMT
Completely understand. It's a great point, we're conscious that regulars on the forum will be very experienced in P2P and as such may not find value in our current solution. In time, we'll look to evolve the solution and cater to this more experienced persona group. Keen to get your thoughts on what you would find valuable? Curiosity as much as anything What I would find attractive is if you had a list of all platforms that you're using and I could select the ones I don't want my funds to be invested on (or the other way round). There are platforms I would have used if they didn't have minimum amount per loan that don't fit my diversification strategy. Interesting. A portfolio builder essentially - would you expect this to look like an execution-only type solution?
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bugs4me
Member of DD Central
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Post by bugs4me on Apr 24, 2018 14:24:50 GMT
jordan - I certainly think there is a market for a third party managed portfolio especially as there are many folks who do not have the time and/or inclination doing their own DD prior to investing. There may also be others that have just decided to blindly diversify and IMO it's going to be pot luck as to whether once those defaulted chickens come home to roost everything pans out well for them.
Whether Orca is for me or not - the committee inside my head is undecided. A question which you may feel more comfortable answering via PM - your choice. The Orca platform:-
'....Orca is a team of P2P specialists....' - without naming names or exactly what depth of experience they have especially bearing in mind the P2P market is relatively young.
So slightly confused.com here regarding that statement. I ask as you will be aware that just about every P2P platform and many other financial sector services outside of P2P generally claim they have professional this, that, and the other and then go on to make a total pigs ear of almost everything. This forum is littered with examples as I'm sure you are aware. Please don't take this as negative finger pointing towards Orca - just trying to drill down a little on your claim.
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Post by df on Apr 24, 2018 14:52:17 GMT
What I would find attractive is if you had a list of all platforms that you're using and I could select the ones I don't want my funds to be invested on (or the other way round). There are platforms I would have used if they didn't have minimum amount per loan that don't fit my diversification strategy. Interesting. A portfolio builder essentially - would you expect this to look like an execution-only type solution? Yes, but this contradicts the idea of an easy auto investment. I think people who can be potentially attracted to your product would prefer it to be as simple as possible. Too many options may have a negative impact on performance of the offering. I would have liked if 18 Sept 2017 FC change would allow for opting out of property development loans and filtering across A+, A, B, C, D, E bands, but I understand why they didn't allow this flexibility. You could set up several options to accommodate different investment strategies if the current offering doesn't perform as well as intended.
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Apr 24, 2018 18:36:07 GMT
I think I'm only interested in these lower return aggregator platforms if they offer accounts within an ISA wrapper; getting low/middle single digit returns in the risky world of P2P isn't attractive, but avoiding paying 40% tax certainly makes them more interesting.
I'm starting to transition away from the higher risk/return individual loans now I've retired, but a *very* well autodiversified platform offering 4 - 6% or so, tax free is rather different. My cash in Assetz 30DAA ISA offers the equivalent of 7% in a non-ISA account, after all. And at relatively low risk.
I'm still in BM, to a reduced extent, but being an early adopter, picked up a number of defaults in the riskier invoice discounting sector, but I believe they've changed emphasis now. I may go back in there, depending on how my remaining defaults are handled. Wasn't very impressed with the sudden 50% fee hike either, as it didn't fund anything of particular value to lenders.
As others have implied, I'd like to be able to pick which platforms to avoid ...
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Post by jordan on Apr 27, 2018 8:51:52 GMT
Interesting. A portfolio builder essentially - would you expect this to look like an execution-only type solution? Yes, but this contradicts the idea of an easy auto investment. I think people who can be potentially attracted to your product would prefer it to be as simple as possible. Too many options may have a negative impact on performance of the offering. I would have liked if 18 Sept 2017 FC change would allow for opting out of property development loans and filtering across A+, A, B, C, D, E bands, but I understand why they didn't allow this flexibility. You could set up several options to accommodate different investment strategies if the current offering doesn't perform as well as intended. I think that's a very fair view. Keeping this initial solution relatively simple, albeit not dumbed down, means we can evaluate the value more easily and build on the product from there. Yes you're right, facilitating different strategies, namely active, is something we're keen to explore down the line. If there's appetite from people on this forum for a solution which caters to different strategies, we'd be very receptive to hearing their thoughts.
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Post by jordan on Apr 27, 2018 8:58:02 GMT
I think I'm only interested in these lower return aggregator platforms if they offer accounts within an ISA wrapper; getting low/middle single digit returns in the risky world of P2P isn't attractive, but avoiding paying 40% tax certainly makes them more interesting. I'm starting to transition away from the higher risk/return individual loans now I've retired, but a *very* well autodiversified platform offering 4 - 6% or so, tax free is rather different. My cash in Assetz 30DAA ISA offers the equivalent of 7% in a non-ISA account, after all. And at relatively low risk. I'm still in BM, to a reduced extent, but being an early adopter, picked up a number of defaults in the riskier invoice discounting sector, but I believe they've changed emphasis now. I may go back in there, depending on how my remaining defaults are handled. Wasn't very impressed with the sudden 50% fee hike either, as it didn't fund anything of particular value to lenders. As others have implied, I'd like to be able to pick which platforms to avoid ... Yeah understood, the IF ISA opens things up to a broader demographic, so it's certainly a consideration but not in the immediacy I'm afraid. Very much a pattern emerging around picking specific platforms to hold within th e portfolio, so I do appreciate your comments with respect to that. What level of diversification (in terms of number of platforms) would you be comfortable with in a portfolio returning 4-6%? I assume this doesn't relate to the solution you mentioned where you can pick and choose platforms? Or would a passive solution just not appeal to you?
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Post by jordan on May 30, 2018 12:46:30 GMT
Hi folks, I'm conscious these threads are largely designed to discus a platform and its proposition in greater detail, which we're always happy to do. But, I thought I'd flag our newly launched 'tiered bonus' programme. New investors with Orca will redeem a bonus - the value of which depends on the level of principal investment. You can find out more about the 'tiered bonus' below. Tiered Bonus InfoFor existing Orca investors, we are still running our 'Refer-a-Friend' programme. Refer-a-Friend InfoThanks, Jordan |
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