ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 17, 2018 22:23:21 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Now Lendy........that's a different matter. I'm worried they are going to fail horribly in the next 2 years. If you don't know by now poppyland, you never will
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Jan 18, 2018 8:24:30 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Now Lendy........that's a different matter. I'm worried they are going to fail horribly in the next 2 years. If you don't know by now poppyland, you never will Hey ozboy, don't be cryptic. I guess it's to do with defaults and communications. But FS seem to me to be a good solid platform, with a solid team behind them, and an increasing loan book. In the early days when I was investing tiny amounts, I did end up with a few defaults, which still haven't been resolved, but since then I've developed a different strategy, and only one loan part has gone into default. I've also advised my son to move all his money out of Lendy and into FS. The problem is, with money to invest, and only a limited number of places to put it, you have to trust someone. At least with FS and their large number of loans, you can spread your risk pretty widely if you wish to. I'd like to put more into Ablrate, but they don't have many new loans, and you often have to buy on the SM at a premium.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 18, 2018 8:38:22 GMT
If you don't know by now poppyland, you never will Hey ozboy, don't be cryptic. I guess it's to do with defaults and communications. But FS seem to me to be a good solid platform, with a solid team behind them, and an increasing loan book. In the early days when I was investing tiny amounts, I did end up with a few defaults, which still haven't been resolved, but since then I've developed a different strategy, and only one loan part has gone into default. I've also advised my son to move all his money out of Lendy and into FS. The problem is, with money to invest, and only a limited number of places to put it, you have to trust someone. At least with FS and their large number of loans, you can spread your risk pretty widely if you wish to. I'd like to put more into Ablrate, but they don't have many new loans, and you often have to buy on the SM at a premium. Hi poppyland . To answer your question, some investors are particularly unhappy with the handling of Whitehaven and the 2 powerful boat loans, with quite some justification I should add. In general, when loans do go badly, FS have a nasty habit of passing on borrowers' versions of events, which is fine once or twice, but when you read for the 10th time that funds are due 'by the end of this month', I think the red mist descends. Whitehaven was/is especially bad, as they kept up a storyline totally devoid from reality (as proven by photographic evidence on the forum). That said, I'm in the same boat as you. For a platform that's been around long enough to be worthy of being judged, I think FS are the best of them, and I have most of my money with them. Alongside the horror story loans, there are plenty of very solid loans. It's often said, but very true, on FS you need to be really selective. So, they do have a bit of an image problem, but nonetheless half-decent loans generally fly off the shelf, far more than MT or Lendy. Coming back vaguely to topic, one of the reasons for that, is that you generally can get in and out of loans by using their sensible (if partially deflated now) SM. Right, will stop rambling now!
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Jan 18, 2018 8:53:52 GMT
Hi poppyland . To answer your question, some investors are particularly unhappy with the handling of Whitehaven and the 2 powerful boat loans, with quite some justification I should add. In general, when loans do go badly, FS have a nasty habit of passing on borrowers' versions of events, which is fine once or twice, but when you read for the 10th time that funds are due 'by the end of this month', I think the red mist descends. Whitehaven was/is especially bad, as they kept up a storyline totally devoid from reality (as proven by photographic evidence on the forum). That said, I'm in the same boat as you. For a platform that's been around long enough to be worthy of being judged, I think FS are the best of them, and I have most of my money with them. Alongside the horror story loans, there are plenty of very solid loans. It's often said, but very true, on FS you need to be really selective. So, they do have a bit of an image problem, but nonetheless half-decent loans generally fly off the shelf, far more than MT or Lendy. Coming back vaguely to topic, one of the reasons for that, is that you generally can get in and out of loans by using their sensible (if partially deflated now) SM. Right, will stop rambling now! Thanks for the info r00lish67. I wasn't in any of those loans you mention, and it's bad if FS didn't handle them well. But hopefully they will have learned from their mistakes, and we can expect better handling in the future. Bad experiences with a platform can make a big impact on how one thinks about them, and so I can understand people feeling unhappy and leaving. But for myself, it's been ok. It's nice to hear someone else being positive about FS. I do try to be very selective with them, and in a way, if people are a bit suspicious of them right now, it probably helps to keep them humble, and that is no bad thing. I feel that Lendy got a bit above themselves at the point where they were everyone's favourite platform, and things went downhill from there. It's also true what you say about the good secondary market on FS - being able to discount in order to sell makes a big difference, although with loans expiring automatically after six months, and being able to opt out of renewing, I don't sell out nearly as much as I do on other platforms.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jan 18, 2018 9:09:52 GMT
<snip> although with loans expiring automatically after six months, and being able to opt out of renewing, I don't sell out nearly as much as I do on other platforms. Yesssss, but.....even aside from the really long running loans, you are quite regularly locked in for a few months whilst, for example, a house is being sold and FS don't want to renew the loan. Which makes calculating how well you're doing a bit more of an art rather than science sometimes Re: this forum, unfortunately negative press is always going to be more visible than positive, as with just about everything in life. MT used to be the golden boys here, but after a few defaults are in the same boat as the rest of them. There's not really much space here for unadulterated praise, platforms will have to make do with their profits instead (or future expectations of profits!).
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hantsowl
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Post by hantsowl on Jan 19, 2018 14:23:15 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Now Lendy........that's a different matter. I'm worried they are going to fail horribly in the next 2 years. I would love to get out but am left with a number of loans which are unredeemed or unsellable. Currently I am sitting on an overall loss, and of the many P2P companies that I have invested with this is the ONLY one that has lost me money....as for Lendy, I have made considerable gains and so far avoided being left in any defaulted loans.
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Jan 19, 2018 22:44:58 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Now Lendy........that's a different matter. I'm worried they are going to fail horribly in the next 2 years. I would love to get out but am left with a number of loans which are unredeemed or unsellable. Currently I am sitting on an overall loss, and of the many P2P companies that I have invested with this is the ONLY one that has lost me money....as for Lendy, I have made considerable gains and so far avoided being left in any defaulted loans. I think all of us are very affected by our own personal experiences with a platform. I've not had any real problems with FS, so they're my golden boys right now. On the other hand I've got 15k stuck in Lendy in loans that will probably work out ok, but are still a bit worrying. But it could easily have been the other way round I suppose, and then I'd feel differently. Like you, I've made some serious gains with Lendy, but I do notice changes there, and people getting more and more cautious. That in itself is likely to have an effect on the platform. Well, as I said to my husband the other day, you've got to have a lot of b...ls to invest in P2P, but the rewards are great.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Jan 21, 2018 9:07:06 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Just read the updates on South Wales Property (1442701959) from the bottom up. Two years of incompetence or worse. The guide price on this property has now been reduced to £350k and they won't get that as it is essentially derelict and worth only the land value which is next to nothing in that location. I would love to sell my loan part for 50% if you are interested as this is my last on this pathetic platform, the only one of 10 where my losses exceed all time interest earned..
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Jan 21, 2018 9:22:53 GMT
Why would anyone want to get out of FS? They're my favourite P2P platform right now. Or am I missing something? Just read the updates on South Wales Property (1442701959) from the bottom up. Two years of incompetence or worse. The guide price on this property has now been reduced to £350k and they won't get that as it is essentially derelict and worth only the land value which is next to nothing in that location. I would love to sell my loan part for 50% if you are interested as this is my last on this pathetic platform, the only one of 10 where my losses exceed all time interest earned.. This is scary - you're the second person who's said they've made an overall loss on this platform. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether it was such a great idea to bring the majority of our money over to FS, and to recommend my son to bring all his money over (from Lendy). But where is better? That's the big question.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Jan 21, 2018 9:35:31 GMT
Just read the updates on South Wales Property (1442701959) from the bottom up. Two years of incompetence or worse. The guide price on this property has now been reduced to £350k and they won't get that as it is essentially derelict and worth only the land value which is next to nothing in that location. I would love to sell my loan part for 50% if you are interested as this is my last on this pathetic platform, the only one of 10 where my losses exceed all time interest earned.. This is scary - you're the second person who's said they've made an overall loss on this platform. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether it was such a great idea to bring the majority of our money over to FS, and to recommend my son to bring all his money over (from Lendy). But where is better? That's the big question. I have moved all the money I can out of double figures interest into the 3-5% range in the (probably naiive) hope that losses are less likely.
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Jan 21, 2018 10:37:44 GMT
I have moved all the money I can out of double figures interest into the 3-5% range in the (probably naiive) hope that losses are less likely.
I hope it works out well for you. I think one conclusion I have reached is that very small amounts in lots of loans is a much safer way to proceed. I don't know about lower rates - on the one hand it could be assumed that they are safer, but on the other hand, the build up of interest to offset losses is much slower.
I'm going to chase the magic 12% for a while longer, diversifying across as many platforms as I can. I realised today that I can save my son from potential losses on FS by buying his loan parts off him before they reach maturity. This way I'm the muggins left holding the baby if it all goes bad, not him. That at least makes me feel better.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 21, 2018 11:16:52 GMT
<snip> But where is better? That's the big question. Sometimes under the mattress IMO. I no longer feel the need to invest just for the sake of it. Not suggesting this applies to yourself. But I do feel the loan quality has deteriorated over time as many platforms are addicted to listing anything just to keep the wheels moving and many lenders also feel the need to be involved. I was guilty of 'piling' into loans, that 12% headline figure grabbing my attention. Fortunately I managed to move out of several of these before the you know what hit the fan. Looking at the history of these still active and/or defaulted loans it would have resulted in nothing more than a loss.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 21, 2018 11:17:46 GMT
I think one conclusion I have reached is that very small amounts in lots of loans is a much safer way to proceed. I don't know about lower rates - on the one hand it could be assumed that they are safer, but on the other hand, the build up of interest to offset losses is much slower. I'm going to chase the magic 12% for a while longer, diversifying across as many platforms as I can. I realised today that I can save my son from potential losses on FS by buying his loan parts off him before they reach maturity. This way I'm the muggins left holding the baby if it all goes bad, not him. That at least makes me feel better. I have to disagree with your FS strategy. Ignoring the little pawn loans, I now won’t invest in more than about 1 in 10 of their property loans. I have a lengthy list of hugely-overdue defaulted loans (bought before I learned the hard way) to remind me why. My suggestion is to assume initially that the information provided is garbage and only invest if your own DD backs it up. Read up on loans like the NI wind turbine, Whitehaven, Knaresborough, Wimbledon, Rishton, the power boats, etc etc to see why (happily I avoided a good number of these). Many of FS’s renewals are just kicking the can down the road and storing up much bigger problems for the future.
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upland
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Post by upland on Jan 21, 2018 12:16:59 GMT
I have been trying to run down naturally since October last. I have had an FS account for over two years and have generally increased my holdings over that period. However the last financial year I would have done better with the money in one of the low risk Zopa accounts. This year is shaping up to be marginally worse with losses eating up most of the gains. As I find this account needs a lot of effort to run I am having second thoughts.
My strategy had been to go in for most loans (No second charges / unsecured / really daft proposals). I avoid over exposure to a single borrower with multiple tranches etc as far as possible. My DD is probably quite average. My biggest loans should be less than 1% with most much less than that. I am probably over exposed to some of the old trains / memorabilia defaulted loans but I look at the potential supply of disasters in the property loans that I hold that have been running well over 6 months and feel that there are plenty of others to replace my current problem loans. You dont need many losses to reduce your overall returns substantially.
I have not given up with FS , as with Lendy there is no point in panic but I feel it prudent to reduce and watch what happens. They may improve as FS review their business over time. I think that the FS website is probably one of the best to use in the p2p sector.
However its all about losses really for me and how they are handled. Unlike equity markets there will not be 'a bit more' somewhere to cover the actual failures. And here diversity has not really protected me. If I had spent a lot more time on the DD (if I could) it would for me start to make it too much effort for the actual return. I find it hard to believe that there are not lots more in the same position as me with FS.
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Jan 21, 2018 12:29:21 GMT
"Many of FS's renewals are just kicking the can down the road and storing up much bigger problems for the future" This is similar to what has happened and is happening to a number of retailers. They have unsold ,"dead stock". Very much like some of the FS loans, the full value stays on the balance sheet, it has little or no chance of being sold at anything but a rock bottom price,and nobody wants to admit that a loss will be incurred with any write-offs. I can think of several grocery retailers this has been true of, and a number of now defunct clothing retailers. The failure of FS to deal with some of these loans in a timely manner is a similar problem, and as SteveT has suggested if the problem is not dealt with it will grow. I would also add the caveat of think very carefully before investing in any renewal on FS.
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